What's the Difference Between Bey, Kim, and Trina?
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 12:17AM So I watched the “Video Phone” video yesterday. I don’t quite yet know what a “videophone” is, but maybe that’s just a sign of me aging my way out of pop culture. I’m fine with that.
And I’m not going into the Gaga vs. Beyonce debate because I think it’s clear to anyone with eyes that Gaga didn’t bring it. And while the video was a good look exposure-wise for her, artistically it was a fail.
Here’s what I do wonder though: what exactly is the difference between Bey, Lil Kim, and say, Trina? Yes, Bey sings, they rap. She can dance too and does her own beats and production whereas it’s still a big question mark if Trina and Kim even write their own lyrics. I fully acknowledge all of Bey’s talents. But content-wise, where’s the difference? Bey’s lyrics are just as materialistic, her video and stage outfits are just as scanty, and she spreads and P-pops it just as good as (if not more and better) than both Kim and Trina in their heyday.
So I’m confused. Is it that Bey cleans up nice for awards shows? That she comes from a two-parent home? That she’s from the ‘burbs? That she manages to be raunchy without cursing? That she’s light-brite and generally assessed as pretty? (just throwing ideas out there.) That she mixes her catalogue of raunch in with empowerment anthems? That she hides her raunchiest side behind an alter-ego, Sasha Fierce so it seems like it’s not really her? (Pause. You have no idea how disturbing I find it that a alleged 28 year old woman feels compelled to express her sexuality solely as a stage persona or an alter ego of said stage persona.) I’m really, really curious where the distinction lies.
And so we’re clear, this isn’t me trying to diss Bey. I’m not a hardcore Bey Bey fan, but I’ve got enough on my iPod to do a train ride to work and a three-mile run without doubling up. And though I don’t like all the content she puts out (frankly her film career is mediocre at best), I do respect a woman’s hustle and grind. I am, however, a hardcore Lil Kim fan (no pun) and can recite her debut album line for line. This is not me trying to bring Bey down, more like bringing Kim up, and Trina too, by extension.
I threw the question out on Twitter last night and expected to be stoned got the following thoughtful responses:
[Bey’s] no bird, but she is their patron saint! The next tour should be called "Beyonce Live: Where Chickenheads Come Home To Roost"
She has better marketing, and a good team behind her
She has a "voice" that will always get her a pass
I think Bey is a little more subtle in her lyrics than Kim/Trina. No vulgarity. But she is def suggestive.
think bc Bey has other stuff goin on, she's got fierce mgmt & she works that 'shy & so blessed' routine well in interviews. plus every1 knows the whole fam she comes from whereas kim and trina come off as hood chicks.
Actually, she does more poppin than all combined, but she also doesn't talk about f'ing "while her period on" (Trina) or blowjobs
Ok. But like how do you get away with lyrics like:
you like it when i shake it
shawty on a mission
wat yo name is
what you want me naked
if you liking this position
you can tape it
on yo video phone
and not be called a bird. Trina and Kim would be torn to bits for rapping about sex on tape, and they were hardly held up as role models. Let’s also keep in mind that 9/10 of Bey songs about men are for “soliders” ie, dudes with their pants sagging low and in white tees. Picture Wayne (who was in the "Solider"video), or better, Jay… but in his dealing days, ‘cause 9/10 when you see him now he’s in thong sandals on the beach or grown man sweaters around New York or Londontown. What kind of occupations to dudes you know have if they still wear white tees and sagging pants post-college?
Exactly.
And Bey’s just as materialistic as Kim and Trina as we can see from the “Upgrade You Lyrics”
Audemars Piguet watch
Dimples in ya necktie
Hermes briefcase
Cartier top clips
Silk lined blazers
Diamond creamed facials
VVS cuff links
6 star pent suites
And while she may not curse, she’s just as raunchy. Recite any double entendre on “Ego” and get back to me.
Maybe it’s because she started out pretty wholesome—despite the barely-there bedazzled “costumes.” I mean there was “Independent Women,” “Survivor,” “Me Myself and I” (I’m just gonna overlook “Bills, Bills, Bills,” an entire song about a man picking up the tab, for the sake of my argument.) There was also that song that I can’t remember the title to, but with lyrics, “girl, go put some clothes on, you nasty…” (Oh, the irony!)
But that’s evolved, into every other single being say... “ Freakum Dress” where women are encouraged to “spin it all around and then take it to the ground.” Or maybe we can refer to, “Ring the Alarm,” where instead of leaving a cheating lover, Bey decides to stay, referencing and recounting all the expensive and name-brand gifts she’ll be missing out on if she bounces. If that doesn’t sound like a bird anthem or the blueprint to a Kim or Trina verse or two, I don’t know what does.
Maybe it’s that she caters to the fellas. Let’s face it, a lot of backlash to Kim and Trina was because they cared too much about getting theirs. And they did it with a bravado that mirrored a man’s. Trina’s openeing verse on “Da Baddest Bitch” lays it all out:
All eyes on your riches
No time for the little dicks
You see the bigger the dick
The bigger the bank, the bigger the Benz
The better the chance to get close to his rich friends
Same goes for Kim’s explicit expectation on “Big Momma”:
that's how many times I wanna cum, twenty-one
and another one, and another one, and another one
24 karats nigga, that's when I'm fuckin wit' the average nigga
Both of these women have a high expectation in exchange for their services— money, an orgasm, something. Neither of these women have a “do your business and be done” situation like Mister and Ceilie in The Color Purple, or say Beyonce in “Cater to You” when she croons:
When you come home late tap me on my shoulder, I'll roll over
Baby I heard you, I'm here to serve you
If it's love you need to give it is my joy
All I want to do, is cater to you boy
Bar after bar she goes on and on about what she’s willing to do for her man (“because what she won’t “another woman is willing…”) and never, not once, asks for anything in return.
Is that it? Men are on board with her, so women fall in line?
I really don’t get it. I mean Kim wore next to nothing on stage, and was damn near stoned. Like Amber Rose, Trina got called all manner of “sluts” and “whores” for her all –Spandex, all the time get ups. But Bey shows up to sing Ava Maria, the “Hail Mary” of Catholic songs, in a leotard and veil and it’s like *crickets” from everyone, including the Catholic church. She shows up at the European Music Awards wearing red lingerie and matching garters on stage and no one bats an eye. A few years back, she gave Terrance Howard a lap dance on the stage for the BET Awards and barely a peep from anyone.
Is Bey benefitting from our relatively high shock-value, a bar raised by the antics of Lil Kim and Trina, so that she can do exactly what they did and not inspire the same level of outrage? Or is there something more to it than that?
I’m honestly confused.
Discuss.
Reader Comments (171)
@ Greatness
"Now lets understand this, the crowds that beyonce are trying to appeal to and the crowds that lil kim and trina are tryin to appeal to, are too different crowds."
First off, I won't say anything about you grammatical error, I'll chalk that up to your schooling and or lack thereof.
Anyhow, let me jump in on this and say... Beyonce does not sell sexy (as you put it). I'm not sure how you view yourself or beautiful women, but the men and women I know do not find Beyonce sexy. Let's remember that having sex with someone doesn't equate sexy and YES many men would just have sex with her rather than, "wife" her. Here's my point, Beyonce is a made up brand... down to her fingernails (minx). She is a facade. A product. How many educated brothas do you know that would take her home? I don't know any. She cannot articulate words outside of her own songs and lacks the ability to put words together in a sentence! If you do not believe me, check any of her interviews on YouTube and if you can find 100 people that think she sounds intelligent, I will gladly revoke my comment.
Secondly, you analysis of the songs are pretty much correct, at least that's the same way Beyonce would explain them as well. The sad thing is... grown women are not buying or supporting her music. As mentioned in so many posts before, Beyonce has yet to grow along with her initial fan base. Those who supported and bought her music in the Destiny's Child days and even Dangerously In Love days, are no long buying or supporting her music. So you argument of "empowering" women is flawed. Grown women do not need to be "empowered" and if they do, that's a character flaw that Beyonce is not going to be able to fix. Teenage girls need to be "empowered" and guess what, that's whose buying her music.
So in summation, since your saying the Beyonce is "empowering" women to be sexy... you're essentially agreeing that teenaged girls need to be taught how to be sexy from Beyonce?
That my friend is a flawed sense of judgement. As a grown women, I would shield my impressionable children from Beyonce the same way I would Trina, Lil Kim, and Hanna Montana (that is a whole other story). This MTV generation of teens have grown up way to quickly and if you think your 8, 9 and 10 year olds don't know what sex is... trust me, you're wrong and they probably know more than you do!
Peace & Blessings
I think you're missing the point of Sasha Fierce.
She didn't create her so that she can solely express her sexuality. It wasn't a creation for any reason. It was always there, as "someone" she seemed to become on stage and then it was named. She's explained this in many interviews.
I saw Beyonce on Oprah, Tyra and Ellen and she seemed to be putting sentences together, just fine to me. It's clear to me Beyonce is kind of shy but she does well enough in interviews. Did you ever see MJ interview? Sometimes people are shy, they don't like speaking in public and it makes them nervous. You could tell that happened to MJ. Beyonce is a better public speaker than MJ was. Judging from Janet Jackson interviews including last night, Beyonce does as well as Janet in interviews.
Beyonce, please go put on a nun's havoc . Go sit on a stool and sing. Don't move at all. You're the only female performer, black or white, not allowed to show any skin or sexuality. It's a crime when you do it and you're corrupting all young children. It doesn't matter what all the artists like Prince, Madonna, Little Richard, Elvis Presley, Tina Turner, Patti LaBelle, Aretha Franklin, Josephine Baker, etc...did before you. Please note the sarcasm.
I've seen Beyonce in interviews and she IS able to put together sentences. What interviews are you talking about? Also, about marriage, isn't it more about how you feel with the person than whether or not they went to Harvard?
This just occurred to me, but if this article is trying to find the answer to it's question, "What is the difference between Bey, Kim, and Trina?" I think the answer is right there in the question.
If you can note enough difference enough to pose the question, then there most certainly is a difference and they are not the same thing.
.. continued..
like
What is the difference between an apple, and orange, and a peach?
Well yes they are all fruit.
Is it because of what they look like? How they taste? Where they're grown? etc. etc.
Yes, many all these things, but they most certainly are different.
I don't agree with this article at all. What Beyonce solo albums do people be listening to? The majority of Beyonce's songs are about love, self-esteem and female empowerment. It's a small percentage that even outright focus on "sex." The only ones that I can think of are Speechless, Kitty Kat, Ego and Video Phone. I noticed with Beyonce's songs they're still about being with one person, even Video Phone. She says to the guy "that he just canceled every other man here." Beyonce's lyrics are not too graphic, like Kim's and Trina's. Beyonce's lyrics are very tongue and cheek. With Ego, it could go two ways what she's talking about. For grown folks, they may equate it to the anatomy. But it could also mean having confidence. Because I've heard the saying that a person's ego is so big it couldn't fit in the room. The song is just a good play on words to me. Speechless is about making love to that special someone. No different than Marvin Gaye singing, "Let's Get It On." Kitty Kat is a smooth song. It's talking about when a man don't want to be with you anymore, you can go find somebody else. You need to listen to all the lyrics, "take a left to compassion because you're going in the wrong direction." A grown ass woman can relate to that. As a woman, I can relate to every side of Beyonce's personality and what she says in her songs. I find her music very well-balanced. Why do people forget about songs like Me, Myself and I, Dangerously in Love, Deja Vu, Get Me Bodied, Irreplaceable, Green Light, Worldwide Woman, Listen, Be With You,
Beyonce's dance routines don't go over the borderline of burlesque/Broadway. Have any of you seen A Chorus Line, Chicago, Nine, etc...? Beyonce wearing a leotard is what many dancers and gymnasts wear when they perform. I can see the same parts of their bodies as what I see on Beyonce. Beyonce dance routines are any more scandalous than Madonna's, Janet Jackson's, Paula Abul's, etc....When I think about Beyonce's routines and costumes are no worse than what I see on Dancing With the Stars, and that's considered a family tv show.
I want to know why people don't get down on men as much? Because Prince performed in buttless pants and sung a lot more explicitly about sex than Beyonce ever has. But we just call him a genius. Even MJ started grabbing his penis and being all up on women. So I don't see why it's such a double standard when it comes to female artist. Yes, Usher, Trey Songz and all of them can do anything they want and women cheer them on.
Wow. I came waaaaaaaaaaaaaay late on this one so I can't read all these damn comments. I really wish I cud've gone back and forth with you guys, but I'll say somethin now if ne one's still up for talkin about this lol.
Let's put it like this, the difference between Beyonce, Trina, and Lil Kim is in the ways they sell sex and the quality of everything they bring to the table. Subtlety is the obvious difference (you like how i juxtaposed two antonyms there huh lol. Beyonce came out in a teen R&B group singing puppy love R&B songs and being shy in public. She spent YEARS maintaining a relatively squeaky image and only subtly hinting at sexual thoughts. People realized that it was about music (and relatively quality music at that).
Not only is Beyonce prettier than both Kim and Trina (especially Kim) but Beyonce's figure (read ass) is better than Kim and Trina's by far. (and I dare anyone to argue that point lol) On top of being physically superior she also has never thrown her raw sexual desires or explicit confessions in your face for shock value in a rap song (which people don't respect as much because they think it doesn't take talent to rap like it does to sing). She has always sang and danced in a very titillating way that made you want to know before she brought out Sasha Fierce.
Now let's look at Lil Kim and Trina. These chicks wouldn't get 2nd looks on the street if it weren't for their sex appeal, and without giving the appearance (or confession which their songs turn out to be) of being nasty, adventurous, and sexually knowledgeable chicks. Trina's introduction to the world on Trick Daddy's "Nann" song (I'm from the South I remember how she took everybody by storm). In this song she speaks with pride about things such as bi-sexuality (which clearly no rappers have ever been able to pull off...lmao) and fuckin "bout five or six best friends".
Subtlety is key, but the opposite has made Lil Kim and Trina famous and respected. You can't have it both ways and Bey's proven that beauty and subtlety can get any chick a pass. Trina and Kim definitely did their thing though. At the end of the day the reason people love Kim and Trina are because they keep it real and don't care about how people judge them (in fact they seemingly welcome it) so I don't either. Beyonce represents women who care about their reputations, but have a strong sex drive at the same time (more like the majority of females I've met in my lifetime). It's really no conspiracy here in my eyes, it's just reality played out on a public stage. And I don't think the light-skinned thing has much to do with it because Trina and Kim are also light-skinned...At least they appear that way on television...
And I'll agree with everyone that the quality of her music is beyond shitty now compared to before. Most of it is because she's lost all subtlety for trendiness and this new concept of an alter-ego as opposed to just keeping it real. It's not like there's no gray area between Beyonce (not sasha fierce) and the Baddest Bitch or Queen Bitch. Trina represents the Miami chicks I know pretty well though lol. I like Trina and Kim too though. I feel like it would be cooler to meet and chill with them than it would be to chill with Bey...but Bey's more pleasant to look at so...iono lol
Yep, Prince was in buttless pants and actually only performed in his draws. Beyonce can't even wear a leotard on stage, like any other dancer. Yep, MJ got to a point where he was grabbing his penis all the time. Are they not good role models, too? Or is it that women only like to criticize other women?
So I take it that no one listened to If I Were a Boy, Halo, Smash Into You, Broken Hearted Girl ? You only want to focus on fun dance songs like Ego and Video Phone. She's got uptempos like Hello, Scared of Lonely and Sweet Dreams on the Sasha Fierce side that are basically love songs, yet no focus on those at all. How funny to me.
I really hope Whitneydanielle didn't just try to make an argument that Bey wasn't sexy....I won't even comment on the rest of the post, but that piece of your argument I simply can't let slide...I almost wanna laugh, but seriously u deserve the still face for that one so i'll just pause...
Yeah Iris, she's the Kobe Bryant of R&B right now (and I'm not even a fan of his lol). The only difference is there's no Lebron (ie no one's even close to her level of success). I wasn't a huge fan of Ego but it grew on me and I liked how she was able to pull off bragging about a man's dick on the radio lol.But Sweet Dreams is a song that I like. And yes she does show off that more human and vulnerable side which i really like. (I never see this with Kim and Trina, I think they're more Fierece than sasha lol, that's why a lot of women love them, they represent aggressiveness and cockiness).
And i wasn't a huge fan of "If I were a Boy" but it opened my eyes a lil bit. I was like "damn, I guess i wouldn't want to be put in the situations most of these dudes put their significant other in". It forced me to think about it without just angrily shouting out how "Niggas ain't shit. They ain't good for nothin but some dick or diamonds" etc etc
I noticed that Beyonce is always singing about being with one man and her lyrics are never real explicit. Most of her songs are female empowerment and relationship songs anyway, where the topic of sex is not even talked about.
so....basically beyonce and trina and lil kim is like pomegranate and bananas....yes both are fruit......but they are two diff kinds of fruit, one is more exotic and complex whereas the other is common and simple.....trina and kiim put it out there, it is wat it is, but wit beyonce, its left to one's imagination
@whitneydaniell I think you could have tried to make your point without calling @Greatness out about grammatical errors and schooling etc.
You wrote "you" when you should have written "your" about three times. You also wrote "to quickly" when you should have said "too quickly." So should I now assume that you and @Greatness sing the same alma maters?
Just make your point and keep it moving.
@RealisticallySpeaking
You can't compare Sasha Fierce as an image to Lady Gaga. Lady Gaga is Lady Gaga, whether that be cute Lady Gaga (in the "Nothing Else I Can Say" video) or crazy Lady Gaga (think "Beautiful, Dirty, Rich" or "Paparazzi" videos). Lady Gaga is multi-faceted, why can't Beyonce be so without "Sasha Fierce?" I was on Twitter while everyone was watching the Janet Jackson interview on 20/20 and someone pointed out that Janet has BEEN doing the "lady in the street & freak in the bed" routine. Janet doesn't need an alter ego. Things that make you go "hmmmm."
[Oh, and I don't remember who it was that made the comment that Janet Jackson has been marketed to children on her last 3 albums. That is totally not true. Janet's last four albums all had parental advisory stickers on them (yes there were clean versions, but that wasn't the main release.) And, nothing about Janet's marketing is aimed at children. Dancing in videos does not equal child apropriate (that might be part of our problem as people).]
I don't like the message that the Bey's alter ego sends for the simple fact that girls who don't know better don't seem to understand that having an "alter ego" doesn't work in real life. No one's going to think it's your alter ego when you show up to the club sans pants. Real people are capable of being sexual, smart, vulnerable, powerful, and private all wrapped up in one package without playing Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
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Also, I have to disagree with people saying that Beyonce has a better work ethic than Kim and Trina. There's no basis for that. Beyonce doesn't owe her career to her work ethic (that's part of it), she wouldn't even have the work if it wasn't for her father. Had Kim been tied to a Matthew Knowles type instead of Biggie and Diddy, who knows what her career would look like today.
I'm wondering now, why everyone was upset at Ciara's "Love, Sex, and Magic" video with Justin Timberlake, when Beyonce's videos have been just as raunchy (Video Phone takes the cake). Is it because Justin is White? 0_o The song was also had a lot of double entendre. Why doesn't she get a pass? (I know I was tryna do backbends in my mirror after that video came out.lol).
Also, I didn't take Belle's post on an attack on Beyonce as much as it was a spotlight on the inconsistencies and contradictions in the Black community (especially amongst Black women). It really is becoming more and more of a problem as the images in the entertainment industry become more and more sexualized. I mean, I grew up singing inapropriate lyrics (which I didn't realize until later), but when I was growing up you couldn't say "bitch" on television. I feel like the bar of what is acceptable no longer exists. If you can booty pop to it, it's ok. 0_o I'm really scared for what future generations are going to look like. And, all of you saying "Beyonce's not a role model" tell that to all the little girls with videos on youtube doing the "Single Ladies" dance in their onesie move for move. The youngest little girl I saw still had a bottle and a pacifier.
I tried to read through all the comments, but. . . . yeah, that wasn't happening.lol. Sorry if I'm repeating what others said.
Sidebar: anyone who was wondering why Lady Gaga was so toned down in the Video Phone video, here's Lady Gaga's account on MTV.com: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1624883/20091027/lady_gaga.jhtml
oh, I have to respond to Greatness:
Ring the Alarm isn't a song from a gold-digger? Since when? It's definitely not a song about a woman who's in love! If I love someone the first thing coming to my mind when I hear about them cheating on me is NOT going to be "she'll be rocking VVS stones if I let you go." If it was a song about a woman trying to fight to keep her man for loves sake, the lyrics would have sounded like "she's gonna be the one keeping you warm if I let you go/ she'll be cuddled up in your arms, if I let you go." All Beyonce was worried about in Ring The Alarm was material possessions.
@Cooyabean
"A wife can't be a ho, too."
Tell that to the mean who've sold their wives and daughters to prositution. #WhyHoodRulesFail
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Sorry to double post, I should have read more comments first.lol.
How is singing "I'm gonna cater to my man" a message that has been shoved down women's throats since the land before time more empowering than telling women "get yours?" How is singing "I'm not gonna have that fancy watch anymore if I break up with my man" more empoweing than saying "I'm not even going to sleep with you if you don't give me what I want?" Beyonce= empowerment? Not at all!
*Sigh* I have grammatical errors galore! Sorry y'all, proof-reading is fundamental but hard as hell when you're multi-tasking. :-\
I LOVED THE ARTICLE!
cater 2 u isn't: cater 2 any and every man..
it'd cater 2 the love of my life.
when she performed it once, she told the audience, "remember, you only cater to your man if he really really deserves it."
which explains a lot i think.
Everyone has valid points. I would say the difference between the 3 is the difference between a raw burger and a hamburger with the works. At the end it's basically the same thing but it's how its presented to you. Bey is a carefully packaged brand, her image/work is calculated & manipulated to attract the masses. Kim/ Trina are not packaged, they are more like the raw material at the beginning of a production line (Bey is the finished product) and that's the difference. Bey is able to balance her sexuality while still remaining a "lady" in the public view; where Kim/ Trina is to the left wing of women sexuality, a bad girl attitude and a persona that rejects the "lady" concept and don't make apologizes for it. While you can appreciate this kind of bluntness, it would have been more effective if they were able to balance the "bad girl mixed with the good girl" image to their fans. Thus more ppl, especially women, would have been able to relate more.
My two cents: C-L-A-S-S makes all the difference in the world. Which is why two women can have on the exact same outfit, and one of them looks like a slut, and the other one does not. The same reason why one girl can get down in the club, back it up, and dance sexual...but another girl can dance just as sexual and look stank as hell or like a " hoodrat". You can be sexual or sexy, and it still be in good taste. It's funny how I never hear or see the amount of posts coming down or disecting Janet..." Miss Jackson if ya nasty", about her sexual lyrics, sexual acts on stage, sub par acting skills, scantily clad stage outfits exposing a nipple ring, and masturbating on a CD. Hmmm...wonder why? Probably because she's the cute, baby girl of the Jacksons. She is very soft spoken. She is always smiling, always kind, and very safe during interviews and appearences. BTW- Janet's alter ego's name is " Strawberry" just like Beyonce' calls hers " Sasha Fierce." Same ish.
So i'm just curious...what's the difference between Janet and Beyonce'?
And why do people act like sex and all things sexual are always so jaw dropping and fowl. Whether you like Beyonce or not, when you hear " your song"...most women will not hesitate to swivel their hips, drop it low, shake their booty, or gyrate. I mean, seriously. Get over it. Grown people do grown things...like wear a " freak um dress" when they go out... some women like to role play and/or have those days where they just want to " Cater to their man"... and don't mind their man taping them on his " Video Phone", or sending them sexual pics via text messages. And there are also those women who feel like they have put up with so much from a man that they'll be damned if he leaves them for another chick, and will " Ring the alarm". I mean there are so many dimesions to people, and I don't know what people want Beyonce' to sing about, but I think many people just have unrealisitic expectiations.
Personally...I like Lil Kim ( pre Mike Jackson make over) and Trina, but I do not like all of their stuff. And overall they just don't compare to Beyonce' overall...they are two different types of women, and their image and the way they are marketed reflects just that. Trina and Kim are hood chicks, and they don't have hang ups or shame about it. They represent for the girls that want the D Boys, got the fly weaves, like riding in nice cars, and will fuck anyone if they look like money and are rich. That's their thing. That's the fan base they want. They don't want to be wholesome...they are " Bad girls". I have albums from all three of the ladies mentioned, and some times I feel like " The baddest Bitch" sometimes I feel like putting my "Freak um" dress on, and sometimes I feel like " I don't want dick tonight!"...it is what it is.