If it walks like an elite and talks like an elite..... :-/

I've always said the biggest issue in the balck community isn't that poor women ae having babies is that professional educated women aren't.

And, unfortunately, many of them aren't.

With that said if you don't want babies or aren't sure you want babies - don't.

It really is that simple.

if you want to have babies and haven't had them - try adopting - but in the end, it's not your "duty" to do anything.

i think more effort should be placed on how to "save" the children who are already here and not worry so much on bringing new ones int the world that may not be fully wanted.

This quote always stuck close to me and I think best illustrates my thoughts on the matter - “I may not be the one to change the world, but I hope one day to inspire the child that will grow to” – Tupac. Yes, Tupac.

I agree Belle. I totally agree. I'm 26 and many of my friends have kids and ask when I'm going to have one or some. Or, when I see someone from college, the first thing they ask is NOT if I'm married, NOT my profession, but if I have any kids? Ummm, I have to have a man first!!! And, I would like to procreate with a man that is my husband, personally. People have some nerve telling me I should have kids. That really irks me.

If all educated, well mannered, and civil minded black folk paired off and had two babies per couple, we would still be the minority within our community. My uterus is not the saving grace of the black community, sorry. That being said if someone must take the fault for the state of our people I vote Lil Wayne! but thats a different topic for another day! What we need are more positive black RELATABLE rolemodels (No oprah cant do it all even with her super powers and new found friend Jay Z). Though it somewhat makes sense to make new Baracks and Michelles its not enough. There will still be some lil boy in the pj's to grow up and be the next Souljah Boy and teach our kids to superman that hoe. It would be far more effective to save the children who need it, we cant just leave them destitute. That is our responsibility. Aren't we our brothers keeper?

I admit that I'm a bit torn on this one.

First, I don't think that anyone should even think of having children if they know they don't want them. Although child-free women are often called selfish, I think that those who procreate recklessly with no thought into their choice of partners and no idea how they will raise their babies are the most selfish of them all. Plus, the idea of black women being turned into brood mares for the purpose of "building the black community" sounds a wee bit too "Handmaiden's Tale" to me.

NOW, that being said... here's where I contradict myself.

I also think that the people/couples who would be the BEST parents and offer the best lives for their children (I don't just mean money here) are the ones who have too much hesitation about becoming parents. They want to wait, wait and wait until they are "ready" -- they want to make sure the finances are just right, they want to make sure that they've traveled to the 10 countries they wanted to see, they want to get that promotion and that house and max out the 401K.

I've seen some of these power couples then finally decide they were ready (mid-late 30s) and then struggle with infertility. And maybe not have a child at all, or just one. Which is better than none, but they might have pictured two or three in their lives.

All that time spent getting ready, and for what? More often than not, such couples are more ready than they think YEARS before they begin trying for a child, and that might have been when they needed to get started.

So while professional couples are focused on this perfect timing, the most downtrodden types are sexing recklessly and reproducing recklessly. Timing doesn't mean jack to them... they get pregnant and just plan to deal with the baby (often badly) when it arrives.

I think more professional types who want kids could stand to find a happy medium between these two extremes.

Obviously, these situations transcend race, but in the black community, such practices have a bigger impact. Infertility rates among middle-class black women are shamefully high and the OOW rate is higher than in any other group.

I'm just sayin'... all this focus we have on the collection of material goods and "freedom" is gonna eventually come back and bite us all in the behind... if it hasn't already.

As for this idea being deemed elitist/classist, I don't care. I think the black community actually needs a healthy dose of elitism (or at least standards) injected into its veins. All this acting like we're just all the same is completely misleading. Black folks, like every other group of people, has a class structure as well. There's a reason that class/social structures develop, and I actually wish that more of us would stop acting like it's such an awful thing that middle-upper-middle class values exist among black folks just like they do with everyone else.

RealisticallySpeaking...I had a lengthy giggle reading your comment. It was very funny (esp. voting Lil Wayne). I do agree with you on saving the children who are in danger of being led astray. Since we are women who have a choice to or not to reproduce intelligent African-American babies, we might as well sacrifice our time and skills to a child....since we could not or would not sacrifice our bodies to create one.

Very, very, good post, Belle. I especially identified with your comment on DuBois since my Social Inequalities class JUST discussed his Talented Tenth the other day.

That email is uhhhmmm... like....wow. I seriously doubt that Dubois' idea of the Talented Tenth "saving" the black community was through procreation and creating little "talented tenth-ers". More like lifting as we climb. With that said, I'm confused as to why we think Black elites don't have "craziness" going on within their circles...and that non-elite Blacks (w/e the heck that is )are the only ones unfit for reproduction. Within both social classes there are people who shouldn't have kids and its not because they're unintelligent or unaccomplished but b/c they just aren't mature enough to raise up a child that will one day have to take its place as a mature citzen in the world. Seriously people, are we saying that b/c Shaniqua only has a h.s. education, her child can't become an educated African American ( that whites love to claim) and b/c John is the product of Lisa and Tony, a doctor and lawyer, he most definitely will become an African American that'll sho nuff make the race proud. If so, we are missing the point of the idea of the Talented tenth. If we frown on our own...when will other racial groups (read: white) accept the black community as having a little bit of everything....just like they do. Lifting as we climb people.

Sigh.
I'm reading and agreeing with EVERYONE which obviously shows I'm torn on the subject.
I can't even touch on anything that someone hasn't already said but I ultimately feel like we are confused as a generation on what our responsibilities, if to anyone, actually are.
I will not even BEGIN to act like I know the answer but it is obvious we aren't sure whether we should be focusing on ourselves or others. We'd all like to say BOTH but finding that balance is a serious challenge that I believe we will struggle with for the duration of our lives.

1910, You met a girl/guy, you liked a girl/guy, you courted, you married, you had sex which usually produced kids and done. (Or so the books read.) Having a family may have been considered everyone's responsibility then or simply "the natural order of things."
The approaching 2010? You meet a girl/guy, you like a girl/guy, you consider your career and your friends and your lifestyle and whether that girl/guy fits into and with those things and you may try a relationship with them. If it works you may marry, if it doesn't you move on, because you haven't forgotten what you want/need and you are educated enough to know you've still got options. Whichever way the relationships have been turning out, you've BEEN having sex, protected and/or preventative (some form of birth control), to ensure the children thing doesn't just "HAPPEN". Perhaps your ONLY responsibility is to finding happiness for yourself.

Overall...
We lack unity on the definition of responsibility, relationships and of marriage.
We all have customized ideas about each of them.

The general outlook in America on marriage is dismal. It's common that people don't consider it necessary, desire it, or believe in it. Yet the majority of mature, educated AA women I know still want/expect/demand to be married before having children. I see a HUGE problem in us (AA women) achieving what we want (a husband) when the idea of marriage is HARDLY going over well in the minds of our possible suitors. So... children of our own is becoming an increasingly distant happening.

I admit I am so afraid of being someone's BM (baby's mother), yet, my mother and a large amount of my AA female friend's mothers were BMs at one point or another. (My mom was a single BM w/ my older brother, but was married when she had me). Most of my friends and associates come from single parent homes but were all raised to be mature educated AA men and women so I know properly raising a child isn't impossible to do on your own, despite me subconsciously feeling so. Because of that, it's possible that when I hit my 30s, if I am still not married, I may have to reconsider my position on being a single parent, but until then, I'm holding on to my commonly shared AA female dream of marrying an educated AA male, and having kids, house, SUV, and a dog. The order may vary, but the kids will still be coming AFTER the husband for as long as I can hold out. LoL.

Anyone seen the movie Idocracy?

@KtC

YES!!! That movie was exactly what I was thinking when I was typing my post!

My cousin who is about 21 or 22 just told me this same shit back in August. I've been with my boyfriend for over 3 years, so she thinks it's time to make some kinda move. :-/ And I basically replied hell and no. I don't want kids, so if somebody in my family of the "community" was waiting on it....Hmmm no. It ain't happening over here. WTH do I look like having kids just because? That's the problem now...mofos having babies all willy nilly, not even knowing what to do after or how to raise them. No Ma'am.

First question, does Tariq have kids....../ Im betting that he does not.
Having two future empresses, I am not too keen on any and eveyone joinging me in the parenting role.
Its the most fullfilling aspect of my life to be a parent, yet it is one of the hardest non stop jobs/roles in my life.

You cant tell your 5 year old to go F..k her self and leave you alone, after a hard day at the office. Or explain to a two year old why mommy cant read her favourite story at bedtime, because mommy has to finish a report for work.Having kids with or without a partner should not be thought of as something on a check list, but a life time journey

In the theory of the top % producing, yes their kids may be future leaders, due to easier access to education and opportunities, thus allowing money and power to continue growing.

However just because you are at the top % does not make u the top % in parenting. An ass is an ass no matter his level or class in life. You may have the best career, highest degrees, making all the paper, and suck as a kid's dad or mom.
And it doesnt mean that Tracy from the hood wont put all she can and what she dont into encouraging and setting her kids straight, and providing the necessary emotional foundation that will help develop 'real adults'

And damn this theory somehow sounds like you trying to breed out certain aspects of the black race. I havent seen anyone trying to breed out the trailor park kids, or the ...... kids

Last time I was home, a good friend and I were hanging out with her 4 yr old son in tow and she asked me when I was going to have a child so her son would have someone to play with.

I gave her the side-eye and moved the conversation along. I didn't even understand the logic behind that question. "I'm trying to go places" I thought as I mulled the scene over in my head, later.

I'm not having kids for the sake of having kids. I can be an influence in my friends' kids lives until/unless I decide to have my own. That's enough of me doing my part, for right now.

The OB/GYN has a point, Tariq has a point, everyone has a point -- but hell, that doesn't make it the right thing to do. The kids born to the "other side" (they are being painted as the "other," here) can grow up and be good people, too. They just might need a little help and I'm more than happy to play that role.

"Overall...
We lack unity on the definition of responsibility, relationships and of marriage.
We all have customized ideas about each of them.

The general outlook in America on marriage is dismal. It's common that people don't consider it necessary, desire it, or believe in it. Yet the majority of mature, educated AA women I know still want/expect/demand to be married before having children. I see a HUGE problem in us (AA women) achieving what we want (a husband) when the idea of marriage is HARDLY going over well in the minds of our possible suitors. So... children of our own is becoming an increasingly distant happening."

Customized was a great word. Everybody here develops their own extra particular ideas about everything and hangs on to them stubbornly. Honestly I'm glad so many different types of black women are moving to the States, because I would never have to have a convo like this with an African woman (hell most west indian chicks are on my page too). After I turn 40 ain't no way in hell imma be still doin me by myself. On the contrary me and the fam are gonna be having all kinda fun and enjoying too much success for me to be participatin in ridiculous discussions like these. The rest of yall keep discussing and I'll keep living. I agree that black men are more concerned with having kids than having wives, but to me it doesn't make sense to do neither...Then again that's just me. I plan on being married, but it's different cause I'm a man so I decide if and when I get married. But fellas if you're worried about women "evolving past" having you some kids, just date non afro-american women and that pretty much kills that problem

"when the idea of marriage is HARDLY going over well in the minds of our possible suitors. So... children of our own is becoming an increasingly distant happening."

actually, that's not true. cover of the new time magazine has a story about women's outlooks and compares the way we think to men. more men were in support of marriage and wanted to do so than women. weird, right? still searching on the "why" behind that.

@justme how else do outlooks and mindsets change without discussion? and to do you by 40 is part of the problem. like what's that doing for all of the women in their 20s and 30s who want to marry a peer, when a man their age is riding out singlehood as long as possible. to call the conversation ridiculous, then join it, is well... ridiculous.

i think the issue is not that men don't want to get married, but moreso men who don't want to get married when their female counterparts do.

i also am super-hesitant to make this a "it's Black men's fault" discussion. there are a lot of women who don't have kids because they haven't found a man to marry. there are also a lot, like many who posted to yesterday's blog, that are disilussioned with marriage and the idea of having kids.

Ha. This is awesome. Glad I don't have to play the elitist today

I do agree that more educated black women need to bear children, but the mindset is that there's no point in getting all that education only to become a "baby momma" and have to deal with the ensuing drama and people talking about you as though you've done something wrong. Given the morals, values, and ethics that lead one to become accomplished, being unmarried with a child feels like a failure, its no wonder women avoid it. I'm 27, I definitely want to get married but at this point I believe that is unlikely to happen. I've already started putting money away so that I can adopt two kids if I'm not married by 31. In terms of whether or not men want marriage, I think they do, but I also think they believe they have all the time in the world. That mentality leads a lot of men to do destructive things in relationships because there's no need to hurry and there's plenty of women out there. Many black men wait forever to get married and then marry someone a lot younger which further devastates the 27-40yr old black female dating pool. Also, the 2010 census is coming up, and I think it will prove that poor black women aren't having as many children as Ronald Reagan brainwashed our parents into believing they are having.

It saddens me that you guys feel that just b/c you come from money and/or are educated you somehow have to save the AA race by blessing us with your children. I come from the "hood" that you refer to which many of you I am sure have never seen. My mother was a crack addict and my fater well let's just say father? What is that? However I rose to the challenge I had no one to look up to as and role model however here I am today. Educated African American professional currently working on my doctorate and married with four children. No mistake there I truly meant four children. My husband is successfull we live in a 5000 square foot home. We drive the family car, and the matching his and her cars we choose every few years. My children go to a prestigous private school that cost thousands dollars a year. They participate in sports, and every other activity you can think of. My two year old can read! All of this from one of those "hood" kids you are reffering to. Lastly my mother's name was not Chardonnay and at the end of the day I had nothing but made something out of it. It is funny how people judge. If you do not want kids do not have them. However please do not feel inclined to save us by blessing us with your children, it does not matter who the parent is your child can still end up on D-Block along with little Leroy!

I would have to agree with the original email....If you look at other races especially white the elite are continuing to keep them ahead. Black women have become quite selfish. It is not bad to get into a career and then have children. I will take my ex for example. About a year ago we had a discussion about marriage and I told her that I was looking to marry (I'm 28, good job no children). Her Response was that she was not looking to marry because she was afraid on marrying and getting pregnant and barefoot. WTF. So there we have it...I would look to say the selfishness of professional Black women often times leave them alone in their later years.

Meli I think you made our point. You are one and now raising FOUR....The statistics on the number of "hood" kids that make it vs "Elite" are staggering. You know you are a special case and now you are teaching FOUR! Say you get 6 grand kids...then they have children your example is setting a family trend. But for every 1 of you there are 30 "hood" kids that don't make it. And do not obtain the skills needed to pass along to there children...

@Mell Your story of ouercoming those situations is admirable and inspirational. I applaud you on your achievements. But nowhere did it say that you had to be raised amongst the educated or in a household that emulates "The American Dream". Simply that if you have the mindset that you have as well as other AA's who are leading productive and successful lives then it could potentially be beneficial to our community to reproduce. Money has nothing to do with it. Teachers make a small amount of money and they are some of the most successful people. Look at the number of kid7 they impact. Really this letter should be a plea for better parenting by all and more community relations, instead of putting a mandate on a womans womb.

@ Meli

Although your story, great and you haven't forgotten where you've come from, You know that it doesn't always work like that. Most time the cycle continues to repeat itself. I'm from the "hood" and I can relate to you and everyone else but just because you made it out doesn't mean everyone else will. Hell the majority will not and unfortunately, most have no ambition to leave.

The question I have for you is How many of your childhood friends from "the hood" have a similar storyline such as yours? or How many do you speak with today on a regular basis?

My point being - As I grew older, I desperately wanted to take all my friends with me on my life success' but every time I came home from college, someone had or was having a child who wasn't ready for the responsibility financially or otherwise. Someone was happy they just got an apartment in the projects. I began to have less and less things to talk about with people I felt like were my friends because I was "moving up" and they were "sitting still". Hence why I asked the question.

Greetings everyone,

I find the whole notion of a strong economic superpower called the “Black Elite” to be extremely dated so I’m going to skim past that.

Belle’s post speaks to me little differently than most of the responses I’m reading, so I apologize in advance that my response is going to be off-kilter. In fact, I wasn't going to post at ALL but Jason's response is forcing me too..

I don’t know what specific industries everyone else works in but I’m a resident of Corporate America, so I’ll speak on that. No newsflash here but Corporate America is structured kind of like a Coke Bottle. It gets real tight at the top and promotions come few and far in-between. Basically someone has to leave voluntarily or involuntarily for you to move up. Or if (big IF) you can fashion yourself to be innovative and one-of-a-kind, then you can possibly get a position created just for you ;)

Meanwhile, at least in my city, there is a new crop of talented AA individuals graduating from great schools and occupying key positions in the workplace. Spelman is cranking out some amazing women every year! I used to be the only AA female in my department many years ago but now I am in good company.

Now add to that wonderful development, the fact that all of the recent layoffs and economic shortages have translated into fewer jobs available for a very large pool of talented individuals. And Bae-Bae (like Monique says), we have a problem.

I got my foot in the door many years ago because a lovely lady in the department had a baby ;) By the time she came back, I had fashioned myself into being a main stay and so... I stayed. And if my colleague who shares my current title at work, also decides to have a baby in the near future, well then I get to upgrade my lifestyle once again. I’m not saying that she would be eliminated at all (that’s not legal) but I am saying that I get at least 8 weeks (most likely more) to prove why I’m a strong team player and why I should now handle some of the lofty assignments she currently gets. Catch my drift?

So basically I’m a little skeptical of someone (whether they are an ob-gyn or other) when they say that “we” should have babies because “we” are smart and thereby would breed smarter individuals. Sounds like a farce to me. Where are the scientific findings that conclude that academically advanced human beings crank out more baby Einstein’s? Whoops, time to reel in my sarcasm.

Now I’m all for having children before our biological time clock goes BOOM and I love seeing little mini-me’s running around. I like kids and I think I want a kid too! But I’m also very competitive.

I thrive on success.
I have a home loan and a student loan to payoff. So naturally when there’s an opening or a new opportunity I’m gunning for it.
And when there is nothing else, I may start agreeing with you that you should have a baby.
Why?
Because the last time someone did that I got a job! And men aren't taking any time off for any reason these days.

However, I won't say THAT! Instead I’ll probably tell you that you are very pretty, have great bone structure and your genes should definitely be replicated.
Read between my lines.
Does this make me a bad person? Heck no, because ultimately the decision to procreate is yours!
Just know that some people are trying to spread fear amongst successful, smart, driven AA women in the workplace for their own gain.
And I'm just spreading the word ;)

@EQ interesting take. definitely worth mulling over

>>>>"Where are the scientific findings that conclude that academically advanced human beings crank out more baby Einstein’s? Whoops, time to reel in my sarcasm."<<<

not so much a genetic thing, more about what the kids have access to via their parents education and outlook that makes them more professionally/educationally successful . to be successful in that way, you have a certain outlook and determination. it's not luck if you succeed over and over. that gets passed on to the kids.

study after study after study have proven that kids of wealthier parents become successful because of what they are exposed to. success almost seems second nature. i could go further, but there's a great book about this. Check out Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers: The Story of Success. It explains a lot (and kinda backs up the outlook of the woman from the letter, Tariq, and Very Smart Brothas.)