The Problem with Tyler Perry
Monday, October 26, 2009 at 11:42PM I stumbled across a lovely blog recently, happyaboutthis.com. And the post that was featured, What Tyler Perry Won't Admit About His Success: His Audience is Desperate, is everything I ever wanted to say about Tyler Perry, but never found the time to.
I don’t see a point in re-writing what’s already been said well, and thankfully, J. Danielle was gracious enough to allow me to repost her blog in its entirety.
She’s a new blogger (2 weeks in) and a great writer and thinker. Please add her to your bookmarks.
Before we go in. I re-tweeted a link to her blog last night and was engaged in a initially healthy debate about whether Tyler Perry films were what the masses wanted. I argued that no one could want half-assed efforts, with stereotypical characters, bad acting, bad plotting and a lack of continuity. I completely co-signed today’s post, that Tyler Perry is only popular (and rich!) because his audience—Black people— are “desperate” for images of themselves and sadly he’s the only one producing them en masse. If there was any sort of notable competition of slightly better quality, he wouldn’t exist.
Before the dissenter became belligerent (name-calling does not make for great rhetoric and is almost guaranteed not to sway opinion), he argued that people who like Tyler Perry films find value in them and like them as they are. I thought he was nutso for that one— until I read a poll on [TheMagazine].com in response to the Tyler Perry interview on Sunday. The poll asked, (I paraphrase) “Are Tyler Perry movies an abomination? Or the greatest thing since Nutella?”
87% of TheMagazine.com readers called TP films as the greatest thing since Nutella.
I was wrong. So my apologies to the sir that I disagreed with.
And damn… it scares me that Tyler Perry is what people actually want. It's just .... bad, bad, bad storytelling. Black cinema is about to be as dead as hip hop.
Anyway, on to J. Danielle’s post from happyaboutthis.com (I’ve highlighted the best parts for those of you with limited time.)
Last night, Tyler Perry was interviewed on 60 minutes. I must admit I didn’t go into the interview thinking highly of Perry or his work, but I was willing to give Perry a chance to address some of the longstanding critiques I and others have waged against him. I have long found Perry’s portrayals of women demeaning, insulting, simplistic, and highly offensive. In particular, his portrayals of single black women are increasingly stereotypical and reveal some sort of deep-seated belief that men are both the reason for and solution to all of a woman’s problems.
Perry has been lambasted for his man-in-a-dress schtick (as have other male funnymen such as Martin Lawrence and Eddie Murphy), he’s also been criticized for the low-brow humor and overly dramatic situations in which his characters often repeatedly find themselves.
But those things are the least of my worries when it comes to Perry. What bothers me the most about him is that he refuses to seriously consider any criticism. This is apparent when he’s asked to respond to the statement of his detractors. It’s also apparent when you look at his work. His movies and his television shows are simply poorly written and directed. Sure, lots of screenplay writers and directors for both television and film are guilty of a bad film or script, possibly more than a few. But I dare someone to name any writer and director in history with a string of poorly executed television shows and movies that has been afforded the level of success Tyler Perry has. White Hollywood must marvel at this sort of black privilege from which Perry benefits. But Perry knows he has a very real advantage: his audience is not just forgiving, they are desperate.
There are very few television shows and movies with predominately black characters. “Everybody Hates Chris” and “The Game” are arguably two of the best written African-American comedies in television history, both were recently cancelled despite lots of support from the black community.* Yet Tyler Perry’s two television shows “Meet the Browns” and “House of Payne” remain on television and have a solid audience. I have seen both shows, neither are even remotely humorous. And even if they were, the characters are inconsistent, ill-conceived, and completely confusing.
For example, the Calvin Payne character on “House of Payne” played by Lance Gross is, at different times, when convenient for the story line, a lazy slacker who can’t complete college, a hard-working provider for his new wife, a dork who can’t get a girl, a debonair player, a simpleton, and the only one to be able to figure out a complex problem facing the family. How can one character embody all of these characteristics? One of the first things good writers do is flesh out each character in their script's traits, habits, and relationship to other characters. This makes for believable and consistent situational dynamics. Perry doesn’t bother.
Character synopsis is too stringent for Perry’s rickety scenes. His rickshaw-writing allows characters to become whoever they need to be in the moment, rather than continuing to be true themselves despite the circumstances. It’s almost impossible to connect with Perry’s television characters due to their changeling nature. His movie characters are similarly fated; however, in his films he deliberately leads his audience and the characters through series of more and more unbelievable events in order for the character to come out completely changed in the end.
What’s most perplexing about Perry is that he claims that his stories are derived from his frame of reference, of his life growing up. Perry has spoken numerous times about the abuse he suffered at the hands of his father. He talks about how badly his dad beat his mom and how he used to hide from his dad’s verbal and physical abuse. But what Perry doesn’t do is explain why, if he is writing from his experience, he doesn’t write about boys who are abused. Why the heavy-handed focus on women, in particular single mothers? Abuse aside, Perry did not grow up in a single parent household. Perry very rarely tells ANY story from the perspective of the male and shies away from any meaningful relationship dynamic that doesn’t involve clear-cut deviant behavior i.e. using drugs or cheating. You’ll never see a couple argue about the laundry in a Perry film, unless the husband ends up slapping his wife and finding her cocaine in the glove compartment of the car as he drives away in a confused rage. Perry is about as subtle as a Bill O'Reilly interview.
In general, Perry approaches male/female dynamics in curious fashion. His portrayals of black men are like that of someone outside looking in, an odd technique for a male writer. The men in Perry’s films exist only as villains and saviors. They are devils and angels…axes of good and evil who, at turns, change women’s lives for better with care and protection or ruin them with selfishness and violence. And while Oprah says that Perry likes to “celebrate strong women” I would argue that he does just the opposite. Madea typically brings the biggest quotient of female strength to Perry’s films. But that strength is delivered by a male in drag, and secondly is mammified and sapphiresque. Madea ‘s character is stripped of all humanity. She has long forgotten any remorse, regret, sorrow, or sexual desire and exists only to assist in the redemption of other, weaker, though perhaps more intellectual or financially successful females. In other words, the female strength we see in most of Tyler’s work is desexualized, defeminized, and provided by someone with a penis. Female strength in Perry's world is largely both mannish and manless.
Despite how Perry likes to sell Madea as a popular prototype of older women in the South, the only characteristic she shares with most of the older black women I know is her weight. I have a hunch that most people in the south remember the Big Mama that used to cook for Thanksgiving and Christmas, that prayed in her rocking chair, went to church every Sunday, and occasionally cursed or played cards and made you turn off everything during a storm to let "God do his work." She may have been brutally honest, but she wasn’t routinely loud or tasteless. And while my own grandmother slept with a gun in her night table, she was also pretty, softspoken, and kept a male "friend." I’m not saying Perry’s Madea doesn’t exist in real life, but she is not the every- woman Perry claims.
During the 60 minutes interview, Byron Pitts questioned Perry about acclaimed African American Film-Director Spike Lee’s criticism of his work. Pitts mentioned that Lee called Perry’s work “buffoonery” that reminded him of “Amos and Andy” and was a “step back.” Perry responded by saying that he’d like to read that criticism of him to “his audience.” Talk about a side-step. Perry knows that his audience would move quickly to defend him by accusing his detractors of trying to "bring a black man down" and prevent him from telling "our" stories. Perry’s audience, as mentioned in the 60 minutes interview, is mostly female, Christian, poor and working class African Americans. This is a group of people who, as Perry likes to say, has been “overlooked” by Hollywood. Perry says that these folks like to see themselves on screen. I agree with his observation and would expand it to say that the ONLY reason that Perry is successful is because these folks do not normally get to see themselves on screen. As far as they're concerned something is better than nothing. But just because your audience will eat anything, doesn’t exonerate you from the responsibility to feed them well. In fact, it ups the ante.
I can surmise that Perry hasn’t done much study of African Americans in cinema and I suspect he never will. When confronted with Lee’s comments, he launched into some sort of pseudo upper crust accent delivered in an effort mock his critics by painting them as Ivy League sellouts out-of-touch with Real America. The same insulting dismissive method people like Rush Limbaugh use to convince poor white people to vote against their economic interest in the name of some sort of ill-placed pride in being uninformed. This is unfortunate because Perry’s audience, which has made his 8 successive mediocre films blockbusters generating $418 million dollars in profits, deserves to be provided with better quality products, even if they don’t realize it. If Perry wants to stick to his overwrought stories of abusive marriages, gun-toting grannies, crack heads and child molesters, that’s fine. But out of respect for his loyal audience he should try to write and execute them better.
BELLE NOTE: I would like to point out, before the discussion begins, that I respect Tyler Perry's business acumen and respect the strides he has made in film-making, production, creating ownership and jobs in front of and behind the camera for Black actors. But while he produces great quantity, I want a quality that matches. His business model—movies made on the cheap, then sold for the same price as big budget films— is brilliant. But I think it's possible to make money and make quality. The two need not be mutually exclusive as they too often are with Perry. I hope that what he's done with Precious (an amazing, AMAZING, film, also made on a budget, but made well), which is being distributed by his company, is evidence of a step in the right, better made, direction. I hope he makes better choices that previously demonstrated when he tackles Ntozake Shange's "For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When the Rainbow is Enough." Hiring experienced, respected directors and writers would be a great first step.
Discuss.
*BET picked up The Game and allegedly, there are filming as we speak.
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Reader Comments (42)
The first question that comes to mind is "do blacl people want quality films?" And when I say back people I mean the majority, not just a select few who want and know better. Seemingly, no. I say that because as a people we seem to not be able to relate unless there is some level of dysfunctional behavior being displayed. You hear it all the time in the music industry. People saying they can love music that gives a message of sex violence and drugs because its "real" and they can relate. Is this what we see when we look in the mirror? I don't. I could deal with the bad acting, low budget, and even the bad weaves if his films showed a different perspective of black people. Something we can be proud of and not just get a good laugh. We have to start expecting more from ourselves and other people. Maybe then we wont laugh when we are misrepresented.
Belle,
Most of the people who like Tyler Perry's work do not watch the sitcoms (or have not seen any). They base their opinion(s) on the Madea films, which even though cringe-worthy, are not the same as the shows (which I cannot bear to watch). When you look at the ratings for the sitcoms, vs the box office on the films, it is clear that this is the case, which probably accounts for the astoundingly high % of supporters.
It seems Tyler Perry's approach to television is like food. If you look at what McDonald's does, they use cheap ingredients, fry it in beef fat, then have you wash it down with sugary drinks...all for pennies on the dollar. Now we know this is bad for us and has no redeeming QUALITY, people buy this stuff by the millions. Whereas a place like Whole Foods is a little pricier, but has superior quality. Turn that lens on the product Perry produces. Madea and Meet the Browns, while funny and entertaining to many, don't really measure high on the quality scale. I agree that with an overall increased investment in talent and production, Perry may continue to present his broad view of what the African American experience is. If he doesn't, he'll just continue to put out film after film and show after show..hanging on to the fact that while it's low-quality (like Mickey D's) millions and millions have been served.
I don't know whether the cohort that supports Tyler Perry's work really likes it, or just accepts it because it's the only available option. I don't bother with it at all, so... My personal frustration is the lack of balance. I can complain all day about Gucci being the standard bearer for rap these days, but I have the option of listening to Kid Cudi of Foreign Exchange, or Common, or a whole bunch of other folks when I want a more intellectual fix. I don't have that option with movies. Which is sad, given the level of technology and talent out there that no one's come from the underground and started to get low-budget, well-written black stories made. Get to it, film school students.
Great post, thank you for letting us know about a great new blogger.
I was late to the TP party in that I had never seen one of his stage plays and wasn't aware of him until his films hit the scene. Initially I welcomed another voice to the film community, especially one making films that employed Black actors and seemed to have a Black audience in mind. But with each film release, I became more disappointed until I had to begin my own personal TP boycott. My biggest beef is his war on educated Black characters, especially educated Black women. They are vilified in his films, and shown to be the evil character who is constantly victimizing the poor, average-Joe, Christian protagonist. The last thing we need in the Black community is more people saying "being educated & successful is bad! It makes you a bad/mean/evil person!" but that's exactly what TP's films show.
I'd really love to see TP speak on the criticisms that others have mentioned, instead of dismissing it all with a "folks just hating on me" type attitude. It does a disservice to everyone.
Well as a former film school students I'll add my two cents:
1. Let's not give Perry too much credit for Precious. That's Lee Daniels film, done and made b4 Perry and Oprah came on as "producers". So he had no say in the creative aspects of that film and lord knows I'm praying that he allows someone else to direct "For Colored Girls". Even though he's not writing the script...oh the damage he could do as the director.
2. I'm a trained scriptwriter and playwright. The man makes me cringe. He is clueless on how to construct a proper script - let a lone a good one - character development - story arks - plot devices all elude him - and it really pisses me off.
Sigh.
3. People love him. My mother swears by him - I don't get it. And yes his business acumen is on point. All filmmakers - but especially black and other minority filmmakers need to learn form it and model it...but that's where Perry's value ends.
4. He's very dangerous for the black film industry. He's Hollywood's go to gu for black stories (see Colored Girls). Spike Lee is the only other black director who can get his films automatically green lit. Black film now equals Tyler Perry - seriously it's like Black Cinema is going the way of the Dodo and I'm not real sure how to stop it.
Any suggestions?
3.
I direct the following comment to no one in particular, but rather to the general "Tyler Perry films suck (enter qualifying statements." sentiment.
Someone on another blog said "stereotypes aren't stereotypes if they're true."
Look, maybe non-TP fans don't know black people like the ones in his films. That's fair, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
Just because you don't see yourself in his movies doesn't make his movies wrong. The dialogue may leave much to be desired and his scripts may be predictable, but his movies DO speak to some black people. They do. They speak to black people who don't see themselves in any Spike Lee films, they don't see themselves in Jon Singleton films and of course none of us see ourselves in mainstream Hollywood films. Further, the way Tyler does movies is the way these people see themselvse. They wouldn't go if they didn't I completely disagree with the assertion that they accept it because it's all they can get. They wouldn't have supported his plays and then turned around and supported the movies based on those plays.
Black folks need to get out of this frame of thinking that tells them that when they go see a black movie, that movie HAS to show them either themselves, or people they know or else it's a stereotype and wrong. That's just not true and it's not fair. We're the FIRST ones crying about how all the white people think we're the same, then we turn around and can't accept that we don't all fit in one box fit for a movie screen. Be for real about what you do or don't like about Tyler Perry films. You don't speak like that, you don't have relationships like that, your world is a bit more refined and cultured and that's great but that doesn't mean that what Tyler Perry presents isn't true for a whole host of people you'll never know. If you want to debate Tyler Perry films on how good they are cinemactically, that's different. But to suggest that because you don't know a Madea or a Mr. Brown that means Tyler is wrong, is ridiculous.
Why would he change something that is obviously working, just because some of us "more educated' black folks think our intelligence is being insulted? Go pop in "Do The Right Thing" and hush up already. Why does he have to speak to all of us? Why can't some of us be left out in the cold, like others of us have been for a long time?
To quote Pimp C, "get off the boo boo"
First of all, thank you so much for this repost! Much appreciated. Although I decided to limit most of my argument to two issues: 1. That his is a poor writer and director and 2. That he does NOT speak specifically from his frame reference as he claims, I would like to briefly touch on the issues of the characters and the message they send. As another commenter mentioned, why would Perry change a formula that continues to work. I agree with this, but would also add that the repeated use of the formula is what makes the characters offensive for many people. It's one thing to portray these types of characters that may be rare but do exist in real life, it's another thing to portray them over and over as though they are largely representative.
These characters, through his poor writing become CARICATURES yet Perry is not purporting to be making satirical films. That's why I am inclined to agree with Spike Lee's argument because the character behavior is dramaticized yet still "sold" as real. Also, I reject anyone that paints this as intellectuals vs. non-intellectuals. My parents love Tyler Perry, neither went to college, both born and raised in the south, raised in the church, both dirt poor growing up, married for 33 years. They both have seen every play (before most of us knew who he was) every movie, and they faithfully watch his TV show. When I pressed them prior to writing this article, they both said his work is "stupid" but "ain't nothin' else on." I could see that it PAINED them to admit this.
My dad in particular is not going to watch anything that has strong or offensive language or scenes and he likes to support black people no matter what!! He will tell you as much. It's unfair to say that it's only those of us who studied blacks in cinema who can see his errors. I believe that much of Perry's audience does not respect his work but feels obligated to support it. That was the crux of my hypothesis that his fanbase is desperate. I am very offended by Perry's portrayals of single black women. I seethe with anger when he portrays us as emasculating and in need of man to save us...and I would like not to support him...but I couldn't help but buy my Daddy Perry's latest movie because in his view, there's nothing else out there for him.
Anyone who provides a service, be they a financial advisor, medical doctor, hair dresser, writer or producer, is subject to the criticism and scrutiny of the group they serve or are seeking to engage. As far as Tyler Perry's defense of his work and his challenge that he would like to read Mr. Lee's comments to "his audience".....that dog don't hunt. Aside from Why Did I Get Married, (which, I admittedly have some criticisms of as well), I have been hard pressed to find a TP movie that I actually enjoy. However, this goes beyond TP.
Look at Real Housewives of Atlanta. These women, as NeNe put it "live better than most people." Yet, they are constantly bickering, gossiping, critical and antagonistic towards one another and reinforce the angry, bitter black woman image and the attitude that black (and 1 white) women can't get along. Then "we" want to comlain about the portrail of black women (people) on TV/film. This is a reality show! Editorial licensing acknowledged, whose fault is it that "we" are portrayed in this manner? Bravo's? I'm not so sure. Yet, RHOA has the highest rating of the Housewives franchise. If these women truly are not being portrayed as they really are, then why not walk? My guess is, these women like the attention and fame they have received for their antics and could give a hoot about social responsibility. Or maybe, as TP said, they are using their behavior "as bait" to draw people in and then discuss charity, family, God and entrepreneurship. *side-eye*
Let's not pretend like some black people DO find TP funny. Let's not pretend like all black people are or should be offended. Let's not pretend that some people truly just want to laugh and be entertained and don't want the God, family, do-better image in their face while being entertained. Does entertainment in the black community always have to be edu-tainment (cue KRS-1)? As a business man should he change? Absolutely not. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. As a professional man seeking to be a leader in his field and leave his audience with some food for thought, should he change? Absolutely. Being black does not mean you inherently know or understand the "black experience". TP would be well served to connect to the WHOLE audience he claims he wants to reach and whose story he claims to tell, not just the Madea's and Browns of the group.
TP's sitcoms insult my intelligence and I personally got through half an episode of each one and never watched again. Having said that, however, everything is not for everyone. I don't like his sitcoms and choose not to support. When will we, and everyone else, learn that black people are not a homogeneous group? Madea was cool at first, even at second, but variety is the spice of life. Let's move on. There are million stories that can be shared about being black in America, but unfortunately TP (cue RHOA) are all on repeat. But is the audience really desperate or do they just like what they see? And is it TP and Spike Lee's responsibility to showcase the entire black experience? Or can they both just have their own lanes and continue to do what they do and this way there is something for everyone?
Say what you want about Tyler Perry, but his work could easily be viewed as supply and demand. Martin Scorsese, he is not. But does he have to be?
1. For once I completely agree with Belle and disagree with MissUnderstood. What makes me cringe is not that Tyler Perry's movies and shows exist, but that they are the ONLY damn movies primarily involving black people that we have the option to watch. I've tried to watch without concerning myself with my typical criticisms lurking in my mind. I try to stop analyzing and try to laugh at the over the top humor (which I don't find funny when white writers do it either, has nothing to do with the stereotyping, although that aspect makes it even worse to take for me.) The problem was that I just didn't find any of it funny. Sure I got a laugh here or there, but I feel like a quality show will make me laugh pretty consistently, and the acting will be believable. I think the point about Tyler Perry being about as subtle as Bill O'Reilly (or even Limbaugh for that matter) was what I have been thinking but couldn't verbalize before. The acting is over the top. It has nothing to do with me being upset that an abuse victim or a drug addict is being shown, or that (gasp, these people are black, shame on them).
"They are vilified in his films, and shown to be the evil character who is constantly victimizing the poor, average-Joe, Christian protagonist. The last thing we need in the Black community is more people saying "being educated & successful is bad! It makes you a bad/mean/evil person!" but that's exactly what TP's films show."
Exactly. And not liking Tyler Perry's quality of movies has nothing to do with "hating" (which is the typical response to any criticism of ne thing black these days) it's more about critiquing or simply expecting better from a movie director.
The only thing about Belle's post that I don't really agree with is about a character not being able to be multi-faceted. "How can one character embody all of these characteristics?" I haven't watched this show except for once or twice (for obvious reasons) but I think in general there's absolutely nothing wrong with a character contradicting himself at times, it's what makes us human (Tupac proves that to a tee). However I agree that you can't be a debonair player AND a dork who can't get girls lol. Some contradictions don't work. But being a good person that helps a race of people make HUGE strides against oppression, but happens to cheat on his wife repeatedly is REALITY IN HD (ie Martin Luther King Jr.). So I don't agree that characters have to be so one-dimensional and simple. Tyler Perry is synonomous with simple in my head, which is why I don't like his material, has nothing to do with stereotypes or me being educated. My taste favor things such as complexity, subtlety, unpredictability etc; and he embodies the EXACT OPPOSITE of all those things, which is why he's a disappointment to me, not because he deals with stories of working class people (more than half of my family is working class, that's HARDLY the issue I have with his movies.) Don't worry Single Black Woman and I are gonna be the Bonnie and Clyde of Hollywood one day ;)
"I agree with this, but would also add that the repeated use of the formula is what makes the characters offensive for many people. It's one thing to portray these types of characters that may be rare but do exist in real life, it's another thing to portray them over and over as though they are largely representative."
DING DING DING! Exactly, I don't get where people get that they are "finally being represented". These stories have been told for years. Other than Fresh Prince and the Cosby's when aren't these types of people portrayed? From Big Momma's House to Welcome Home Rosscoe Jenkins, we get it. Boom boom ain't it great to be crazy as long as you have a touching family moment and a fake moral of the story that we already knew at the end. yawn...
I agree with the general discord surrounding TP Movies BUT I really enjoyed
"Why Did I Get Married"
and I'm looking forward to the sequel next year.
That movie shows that he is capable of creating well rounded characters and doesn't always have to rely on Madea for laughs and entertainment.
That's all I can really say in support of his movies....sad but true. Oh wait no, also he does employ black actors!!
coonery at its finest
I think Angela Bassett what little of a career she had left when she played in Meet the Browns.
Hey Guys,
Not going to make this long at all, but I had to say...
I love Tyler Perry movies. I have watched Diary of a Mad Black Woman at least 75 times to the point where I can recite most lines ("Cooking. Cleanting."). I also loved The Family that Preys, Madea goes to Jail, and Why Did I get Married. I eat it like salty popcorn or flavored pork rinds.
I am *not* the supposed audience of Tyler Perry. Went to an Ivy League school, work in publishing, living in Europe. I guess I should be ashamed, but I think something we're not acknowledging is that Tyler Perry films strike a chord at the soul and foundation of people that can't be overly analyzed, justified, fit into a trope, and spit back out. I'm intensely spiritual, and related to the story of "redemption/perserverance in the face of adversity" in Diary of a Mad Black Woman. Even if the message was simple, it gave me hope at a time I needed it. Yes, Madea is funny, but really she was only a passing act in a movie that was as a whole enjoyable and insightful.
I can't help but feel torn about this affection for Perry. Most people I know look down their noses at him..my mom thinks 'something's wrong with his head' since he dresses in drag so effectively.
As someone may have said earlier, black people are as varied as fingerprints, and even though we hope that we can always have the Dr. Huxtable portrayals in film, I think Spike Lee (whom I love as well) has his place right alongside Tyler Perry. I think TP films do serve some raw, visceral, yet pure need that all of us have yet can't put a finger on.
As an aside, I have horrible taste in most things..I loved Flavor of Love, The Parkers, and generally enjoy any other 'bad' productions in film and on TV. What can I say? I just like to laugh and be entertained. So shoot me.
Sorry, that was long. My bad!
I completely agree about TP movies and TV shows. My mother loves them but she is: 1) religious; 2) grew up in Mississippi; 3) working class; and 4) uneducated. Not putting my mother down ( I love her dearly and she is a great strong woman), but this seems to be his target audience. As an educated professional black female, I just wish he would not treat us like dirt. But, I do not watch his films. Under protest, I went with my mother to see "Why did I get married?" I am so tired of the "ABW"character. It is bad enough when whites portray us as "angry black women" but why do we do it to ourselves? I was also offended by the female attorney who seemed like such a "hefer" b/c she was trying to be successful at work. It seems as if he was telling us women that we must not be "too" ambitous if we want a good man. Oh, I could go on but I am so over it...
Great post Belle! To go against the grain here, I have to agree with ASmith. While Perry's films aren't as "deep" as they come, I don't think that they're horrible. A lot of his films are telling the stories of working class black families as well as more financially stable families. Daddy's Little Girls, for instance, definitely put the conversation that many successful black women are having about the lack of available black men out there. It also showed a picture that we rarely see, a responsible black father. While the character Madear is quite over-the-top, the other characters are people I know or have heard of in the community. I think that's why so many people like his movies. I know the abused wife whose afraid to leave her husband because she doesn't know how to live on her own, the sexually abused young girl, or in the case of Perry's latest movie, the young kids left with grandma because their mother is addicted to drugs. These are real people with real issues. And maybe people like the movies because he shows their issues just as they are, with no major complex story lines or camera angles (clearly I don't know film lingo...lol).
I always find these debates interesting because at the end of the day, we say we can't stand Tyler Perry movies, and want more uplifting and positive movies, yet we don't go to those movies, in sufficient numbers, to make them a financial success. So I wonder... are we closet supporters? Do we get online and have intellectual debates and about our loathing of TP's characters and plots yet quietly go with the fam to see the newest release? For films that appeal to a black audience, his movies make a LOT OF MONEY. And I mean a LOT. He leaves most other black-audience pics in the dust.
You can have a black-audience film with top stars, two unicorns, fourteen angels, five appearances on Oprah and the sanction of the Pope and a Madea movie will still beat it in box office revenues. So where's the disconnect?
Personally, I watch some of his movies and say "oooh weee he got issues." He makes his characters stereotypes instead of the complex people they actually should be. He goes way-too-far with trying to set up good guy/ bad guy scenarios. The dialogue is cringe worthy most of the time.
Yet...
Angela Bassett
Maya Angelou
Alfre Woodard
Cicely Tyson
who else is doing that?
So in the interest in furthering Black cinema, I support TP because, like it or not, he's breaking ground and opening doors. And I won't say "something is better than nothing" but if the intellectual black collective had their way, we would be stuck with low box office earners that don't get anybody anywhere. Make money, create jobs, build wealth, open doors... I ain't mad at it.
-- just think about this--
Adam Sandler is a comedian who falls in the camp of comedians that put out senseless movies (like Jim Carrey and Ben Stiller). Who, arguably, is actually a very talented dramatic actor (or can be) yet makes his money in senseless humor. Love Adam Sandler. The financial resources and box office draw he has built allows him the ability to produce films through his own company (as are most of his films now).
Guess what film his company is producing?
wait for it...
wait for it...
The Richard Pryor biopic.
So my point is, if it weren't for silly films like Happy Gilmore and Zohan... if it weren't for senseless tasteless movies, fart and crotch jokes, he wouldn't have the ability to do what he does now. Along those lines, yeah Tyler, get your hustle on. Because if it wasn't for Madea, Precious wouldn't have BFFs Oprah/Tyler pushing it. If it wasn't for Madea, For Colored Girls might not be getting made because WHO ELSE BLACK has that kind of weight in hollywood right now?
I have a saying that the art (or work) you loathe finances the art you love. And it just does.
Wow. There is so much to offer here and for reasons I'll demonstrate later, it's clear I must write the article that's been in my head and sitting, in rough draft form, on my laptop, for years . . . thanks so much for this discussion.
Tyler Perry can't be defined by one film or even the one Madea character. I think the stage plays were always a different animal because engaging in call and response and being able to laugh *with* an audience as opposed to "at" them is another ballgame. Once Perry moved into the mainstream, the questions around who is laughing, at whom and at what resurface and the answers are now slightly different. I think Perry has always seen himself as laughing with the people, including the stereotypical characters, which is why he might be somewhat baffled and appalled by the criticism. "Why Did I Get Married?" wasn't bad but needed some plot work and character development. I wasn't embarrassed by it, though. Same with "Diary of a Mad, Black Woman". Perry's storytelling gets its strength from Alice Walker (who was lambasted by the Black community when The Color Purple first emerged in book form, let alone the film) and Oprah Winfrey, who speaks openly about her abuse as a child. I think he deals mostly with Black women's abuse because he's unable to presently deal (in a therapeutic and/or public manner---and it's his choice) with his own child sexual abuse, particularly that which he suffered by a man. Second, I think he's trying to reconcile or recreate a character who would have saved his own mother from the abuse she suffered at the hands of his own father. It seems Perry would have loved for a Madea to have saved his mother and given her enough strength to leave and take him with her.
For the record, I am a Black woman playwright, poet and performing artist with a One-Woman Show. It's been relatively successful as I've been on tour since Spring 2005 but it's also been a challenge just to get the marketing consistent and, certainly, I could be resentful that here I am, a real Black woman, but Perry gets to dress in drag and tell "my / our" story when I know good and well I am better equipped, not just biologically but in every other way, to tell a Black woman's story. But I can't knock his hustle, I can only learn from it, hence I titled my first DVD that's about to be released, "Dr. Goddess Goes to Jail, a spoken word, musical comedy (unfortunately) based on a true story". LOL. Don't hate! I would love your support, though! I put my FB page up but here is my main page, too: http://www.drgoddess.com
Content aside, my biggest issue with Perry is that he needs to learn how to construct a film. Most of the time, I feel like the movies don't flow quite right and/or his character's lack development. I'm no expert, but I assume that writing for a play is different from how one would write a film. Perry seems to suffer from a bit of hubris. If he won't learn how to, he should at least hire someone to properly write/direct his screenplays. I'm sure he can afford it. A better product (I think) should be more important than slapping your name all over it. In fact, I think that should be impetus to make the best product you can. If you're not willing to at least listen to criticism, even if you choose not to follow it, what's the point? Whatever chip he as on his shoulder from Hollywood critics not liking his work, or whatever it is, he needs to let it go..
Hahaha, Claire we're all just expressing opinions and yours was quite necessary. One that I can respect to the fullest. As long as we agree on the metaphor that his movies are still pork rhinds at the end of the day. There's nothing wrong with eating pork rhinds but it's something wrong with eating only pork rhinds and mcDonald's (radio rap) with no balance. Like too many black people don't have access to healthy foods or movies that'll expand their references of the possibilities of being black and having your own ethnic and racial culture yet expanding it past the way things have always been, and I'd like to see more of that. That has less to do with Tyler Perry's success and more to do with the lack of anything healthy and quality to balance it out, but let me set the record straight. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH ENJOYING ANYTHING TYLER PERRY HAS PRODUCED. I personally don't find much value to it, but I see your point and I'm like that about music a lot so I understand and respect that completely. I went to a good private school as well and still LOVE Gucci Mane, UGK, Juvenile, and others that many people i know and associate with turn their noses up at. I get where they're coming from and I like things about them that are hard to explain to some middle and upper middle class black people (then again many of them love it like I do, so nothing's black and white). The difference like someone said is that I have choices in rap. I can listen to the artists I just mentioned in doses (i have to) and then balance it with some Andre 3000, Jay-z, Mos Def, Lupe Fiasco, and others that are more quality as far as depth of subject matter, lyricism and creativity. The film industry needs more of this type of variety when it comes to shows and movies pertaining to the black experience. That's all we're saying.
"As an aside, I have horrible taste in most things..I loved Flavor of Love, The Parkers, and generally enjoy any other 'bad' productions in film and on TV. What can I say? I just like to laugh and be entertained. So shoot me."
lololol, Not mad at ya, at least you know what it is and accept it. It's when people are in denial that I just shake my head and pray lol
Ehh I follow both you and the "dissenter" on Twitter and I have to say you slung your share of silly insults too. The whole argument got ridiculous and I couldn't believe that two writers I respect "went there." It's OK to have different opinions without getting catty.
The point that he made is a valid: while some of us do not see ourselves in Tyler Perry's productions or enjoy them a whole lot of people do (one or each of both).
To me, the biggest problem is that we don't have enough variety, not that Tyler is making his films of choice. I too, yearn to see more images that look like me and the black people I know represented in film and TV, but I can't knock the fact that some people relate, just because my time hasn't come. Yes there is a lack of variety, but trying to make Tyler Perry the "Al Sharpton of the flim" and trying to force him to speak for everyone isn't the solution. He's just one voice. And really, he's been doing those kind of productions and using those characters since he started his career in theater, it's not like he sold out once he got to Hollywood. That's his thing. Can't be mad at that. If you got wildly famous for writing about sex and relationship I wouldn't be mad at you like OK now you have to be Alice Walker. Lol Kudos to him for even trying to branch out to use his money to branch out and back movies like Precious and fame to give moves like the upcoming "Colored Girls." Hope he continues along those lines but if he keeps making Madea as well, so be it.
On another note, I notice on Twitter you compared Tyler Perry, who writes comedies to Spike Lee who does dramas. That's not even a fair comparison since it's wo different generes. You wouln't be mad at a show like Rosanne for not writing more story lines like a show such as Brother's and Sisters. Two different audiences, two different types of work. Black people just don't get that kind of variety with black productions; they're almost always comedies. I'd bet if we had more dramas like Precious (which I've seen) people wouldn't have such a problem with Tyler Perry's works, but when you look at that movie it promotes a lot of negative black images as well: poor black families on welfare, the main character is supposed to be "ugly" because she's fat and dark, single black mothers struggling to take care of their children, black men who don't take care of their children at all, etc.
I think Perry's appeal also goes beyond people being "desperate" to see images of themselves represented though. A lot of the older black women I know who enjoy his films are religious and they say they don't want to see movies with lewd scenes, cussing, and excessive violence and they knows when she goes and sees a Tyler film she's not going to get all that. Understandable. My little sister enjoys House of Payne and Meet The Browns and while I think those shows are pretty horrible: bad acting, dead jokes, thin scripts, but I'd rather see her watching that than Gossip Girl or whatever comes on MTV. Perry's films and shows have family value, not every parent wants their child watching Girlfriends and The Game. Where else do you go to see black people on TV? If Spike Lee and John Singleton made family films they might have more success in the box office too.
Again, to me the biggest problem is the lack of variety. I will pray for the day that we have more than a handful of black producers, directors, etc that decided to show different aspects of the black experience (because not all of them even chose to go there. Love Shonda Rhimes for Grey's Anatomy, but it's not like she's even trying to do all-black shows). In the meantime, I wont be offended that Perry is doing his thing.
"I notice on Twitter you compared Tyler Perry, who writes comedies to Spike Lee who does dramas. That's not even a fair comparison since it's wo different generes."
that wasn't me. that was "the dissenter" who brought that up. i pointed out in response that it was not a fair comparison as they are light-years apart in terms of the actual art of film. they should not be compared.
>>I'd bet if we had more dramas like Precious (which I've seen) people wouldn't have such a problem with Tyler Perry's works, but when you look at that movie it promotes a lot of negative black images as well: poor black families on welfare, the main character is supposed to be "ugly" because she's fat and dark, single black mothers struggling to take care of their children, black men who don't take care of their children at all, etc.<<<
it's not that those characters are shown, as they are in Precious, which tackles some pretty heavy themes, it is HOW they are shown. There's depth to all of those characters, especially the leads, Mo & Gabby (if Gabby doesn't when an oscar it will be an outrage)
Miss Understood, you should've dropped the mic at the end. I like your reference to Adam Sandler -- he's been in/made some of what I think are the worst movies ever but I a)respect his gangst and b)note the white people don't give him HALF the ish we give Tyler Perry, but I guess it's more of that "we have to be 10x better" stuff, except I'm wondering where being "10x better" has gotten us in Hollywood.
Even though TP gets blasted on these here innawebs, he still makes money, so SOMEBODY is supporting him.
We all know that rappers like Jay Z and Kanye West who go double, triple and all kinds of crazy platinum when they put out albums do so because they have white fans. You go gold on black fans, you go platinum on the white people. In turn, we've used this logic to explain why the Spike Lees and John Singletons of the world can't QUIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTE match their white counterparts. They don't make films that appeal to the 2520s and that's absolutely ok. We love them for it. But, enter Tyler Perry who somehow makes major bank on a mostly, if not completely, black audience. It's like an atom bomb blew up and because nobody can explain it, I feel like people go for the man's knees.
I'm not saying people need to love Tyler or his films, but you have to respect not only what he does, but that it is working. He's putting butts in seats in the theater for his own films.
Like Perry said, the 'chitlin' circuit' is what made him. He reached out to an audience using religion/faith/God as his vehicle and that audience IS largely ignored in the mainstream. With the cancellations of Everybody Hates Chris, Chocolate News, and possibly The Game, all I'm left with is Lincoln Heights. Personally, I have tried watching Perry's sitcoms and cannot bear to sit through more than 5 minutes. The writing is inconsistent, the characters, for me are unrealatable. However, Why Did I Get Married, Diary of a Mad, Black Woman, and The Family That Prays are movies I do enjoy. I think MAYBE, his films reflect not only a certain socio-economic audience, but regional differences, also. East coast, west coast, and the Midwest residents have always seen people from the South in stereotypical ways (those of you who have family in the South, you know what you used to think when you were little going to visit!) Spike is NYC through and through. Singleton is definitely west coast. I'm from Wisconsin, from the same city that birthed George Tillman (writer and director of Soul Food). Overall, I cannot relate to Perry's characters, but I assume his audience must, because I don't patronize events I can't relate to. I can only assume the same of his audience. Spike's films (outside of She Hate Me and Girl 6) carries messages and meanings for me. School Daze WAS my college experience! I can't slam Perry, but I guess like rare steak, his movies and characters overall, are just not to my taste.