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Tuesday
27Oct2009

Guest Blogger: Why the Talented Tenth is Failing the Black Race 

 Say "Hi" to Brandi. She's a dear friend who I see way too infrequently and she drives me up a wall. I'm serious. She needs to be a writer or some sort of academic and she refuses to get with the program. 

This is her very thoughtful response to "Have Babies, Belle" our discussion of whether educated Black women are obligated to reproduce. 

I won't kiss her tush any further. Read and share your thoughts. I'm looking forward to the discussion. I feel like Alain Locke in the Harlem Renaissance (do not ask me who. Look him up if you don't know.) 

And if you like what you read, follow Brandi at socialangst.blogspot.com

I read a blog  here this week in which Belle asked her readers about the responsibility of the Black elite in relation to reproduction and W.E. Dubois’s “Talented Tenth” leadership theory.  The blog, in (objective) summary, asks: do the Talented Tenth of our society have an obligation to the Black community at large, to procreate the next generation of Black leaders?

While the language of Belle’s friend could be described as divisive and wrought with elitist bias, I must admit that the logic behind the language seems sound.  Black society could undoubtedly benefit from the active reproduction of our most educated population (though there are far more efficient and effective ways to affect wide spread positive change within our society – mentorship and community service being among them).  It stands to reason that children raised by educated parents who place value on higher education, will in turn seek and value education themselves.  Unfortunately, such measures would bring about only minimal change in the greater evolution of Black society as a whole, especially if the Black elite maintain their self-imposed isolation from the broader Black populace. But that is another conversation for another time. 

Today’s conversation regards Belle’s friend’s use of the term “Talented Tenth."  After reading the post and the subsequent comments, I realized that the term was being used quite broadly across the Belle readership.  It seems that many Belle readers consider themselves among this prestigious group, and, to be honest, that really surprised me.   According to Dubois the characteristics of the Talented Tenth are clear:

Men we shall have only as we make manhood the object of the work of the schools—intelligence, broad sympathy, knowledge of the world that was and is, and of the relation of men to it—this is the curriculum of that Higher Education which must underlie true life. On this foundation we may build bread winning, skill of hand and quickness of brain, with never a fear lest the child and man mistake the means of living for the object of life... 

The Talented Tenth is not defined by level of education alone, but also by the level of education they choose to impart. The Talented Tenth makes “manhood the object of the work of their schools."  In essence, they facilitate the broad teaching of manhood among their peers, community, and Black American society at large – through “intelligence, broad sympathy, knowledge of the world that was and is, and of the relation of men to it."  

Dubois premised his Talented Tenth leadership theory on social and intellectual philanthropy.  He recognized the Black class structure as a constant tiered evolutionary process – one that will always consist of the Black elite, the Black middle class, the Black working class, and the Black poor.  However, the most powerful tenet of the Talented Tenth ideology is that under the right leadership, the Black elite will grow larger and the Black poor will grow smaller because the Talented Tenth will continue to move our society as a whole (not just the Black elite) towards positive progression.

Dubois selects deliberate examples of who embody the qualities of Talented Tenth.  He speaks of men who worked, not in self-interest, but in the interest of evolving Black society— individuals like Fredrick Douglass, Sojourner Truth, and Alexander Crummel, who instead of focusing on the freedom and future of their own families focused on the freedom of their people.  He talked about Langston Hughes and other greats of his time, men who together worked to inspire the masses.  It is that ability, to empower and energize the masses, that ultimately sets the Talented Tenth apart from the rest.  I am hard pressed to believe that individuals who so easily and deliberately separate themselves from the (ghetto) populace would warrant even passing consideration for this accolade. 

The most pressing issue of Black America is the growing divide between the “haves” and the “have-nots." Those who have access hoard it.  And the talent of lower class individuals is being both unrecognized and unsolicited by the top tier of Black society.  We are not meeting our obligation to nurture those who have less access.  We are failing ourselves and it is starting at the top.  In his “Plea to the Talented Tenth,” Langston X Thomas writes:

W.E.B. Dubois envisioned that the 10% of Black Americans who acquired the skills and/or education that enabled us to succeed in the larger society would eventually "come home" and use our tools and talents to build a bridge between the Black "haves" and the Black "have-nots." Unfortunately many of the "talented tenth" (and I speak from personal experience) used our tools and talents to build personal bridges between the so-called races and then used these bridges as private access roads from the ghetto to the suburbs. In the process, of course, we left our less fortunate sisters and brothers behind. Hebrew scholar Ben Ammi, writes in his book, God the Black Man and Truth, "Education today is based upon class, aimed at attaining power and fulfilling materialistic desires rather than providing a service to our fellow man." I remember how my college classmates and I laughed at the African brothers who said they were going to get an education and then go back home to help their people. In retrospect I now know, an immigrant wants to help his people while a slave wants to help himself. 

 

The Talented Tenth is not a label of affluent or educational distinction, it is a covenant and the terms of the covenant are simple: 

The Talented Tenth rises and pulls all that are worth the saving up to their vantage ground.  This is the history of human progress; and the two historic mistakes which have hindered that progress were the thinking first that no more could ever rise save the few already risen; or second, that it would better the uprisen to pull the risen down.  

 If you are not actively seeking out and pulling up the deserved, can you truly call yourself part of the Talented Tenth?  Without commitment to the covenant aren’t you just simply elite?  And, if you are simply elite, is your impact on Black American culture benefitting anyone other than you and your insular circle of friends?

In 1903, when Dubois penned his theory, the Talented Tenth was equal parts higher education and social proactivity.  In present day, with the advent of public libraries and the Internet, perhaps (formal) higher education is no longer as important as it once was.  It would seem that today, the true leaders of Black culture are defined mostly by their ability to recognize and sympathize with all social circumstances, engage all social classes in dialogue, encourage active participation and problem solving among all Black people, and inspire empowerment through change.  (Sound like any leader of the free world that you know?)

What does it really take to be part of the Talented Tenth today?  I dare say a masters degree and a job title alone is insufficient.  I submit that your willingness to provoke action, regardless of your education level, is the true mark of the “Talented” title.  Or more plainly said, a high school graduate who actively works within the “hood” to combat gang violence is just as, if not more, “talented” than you.

 

Discuss. 

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Reader Comments (34)

Preach! During undergrad the term talented-tenth was use all of the time. The disconnect between "us" and "them" was something that I had a huge problem with. But what irritated me even more were the people who volunteered but held such horrible views of the people they were mentoring and of course those that mentored for show. I wrote and performed about it a lot. This is a snippet of one of my pieces:

Apparently
This is supposed to be the talented tenth
Heard speculation our that our success trickles down to the masses
But we don’t know who they are

Make ourselves into the elite
And them into the other
Them in to a philanthropic endeavor
Problem to be fixed
We’ve overcome it
So far removed that we don’t understand struggles
Just sing along to them on rap songs
Don’t feel struggle outside of what clothes to put on

It’s become a joke
Host events to receive accolades
Don’t speak to kids outside of their designated day
This has nothing to do with the dream
Just image building

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered Commenter20-Something

Hi Brandi! I soooo want to give you a high five.lol.

I used to really get upset with Muslim brothers I talked to who threw the term "slave mentality" out right and left. I was starting to feel like some just said it, the way some people use the word "hater" (as the other blogger you profiled pointed out.) Not that I didn't think there was still evidence of "slave mentality," but it couldn't actually be the answer to everything. But, after talking with my best friend the other day about why Black Americans are the only minority group who can't seem to work together to bring each other up, this post said it beautifully:

In retrospect I now know, an immigrant wants to help his people while a slave wants to help himself.
That basically goes back to what my best friend said was "crabs in a barrel," and what all the Muslim brothers were telling me was "slave mentality."

She was making the point that when other groups come here, a whole bunch of them will get together and live under one roof so they can save money to 1) send back home and 2) be able to afford a good education for their kids. -While a lot of people joke that Latinos did this, they weren't the only ones by far.- When they get enough money together they'll start a business and give their family members jobs (I know an Indian family in which the patriarch owns a Dunkin Donuts, and all the guys working there are his nephews.) When they get even more money they'll start buying property and renting it out for additional income (in college my Jewish landlord had his daughter be his property manager for 4 houses he owned. His English was poor, or he wanted me to believe so.) Next thing you know, the family that came to America poor is living VERY well by the 2nd or 3rd generation in.

It's sad that as a people we don't do that, not even for family. I don't know if we ever did that. I was just asking myself if I would live under one roof with more (working) family members to save money, and I cringed at the thought of the luxuries I'd have to give up (and God forbid there's more than 3 people per bathroom, I could not deal.) We've literally bought the White American myth of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" hook, line, and sinker. And, we definitely don't trust each other.

Given that Jim Crow did exist and there were significant roadblocks put in our path once we were free (e.g.: lacking civil rights), it's too bad we adopted the lifestyle of our oppressor (the "autonomous" landowning White male), rather than that of other immigrants.

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterMoreAndAgain

I think a good point was made. Many of us do get so caught up with doing for ourselves, we completely forego our responsibility to help out those who are not as fortunate.

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterBrandon St. Randy

I like this post. What I see as a major problem is black people's inability to reconcile personal responsibility with sympathy. Black people can be very socially conservative and subscribe to the idea that if people only worked hard enough they would be successful. If poor black women just had less babies they'd be more successful. If people just stopped using drugs, or just went to school...etc. If you believe that the solution to the lower class's problems is as simple as them making better choices (read: Daniel Moynihan) then what would ever compel you to survey the crowd of "have-nots" in order to seek out who is "deserving" of help? Typically when I point out that there are systematic reasons that many people can't rise out of the lower class which highlights the need for the 'haves' to do more, I'm typically accused of being an apologist for their behavior. Once again, where is the reconciliation? Finally, I believe that the black church could do a lot more than they do. That's a billion dollar "industry" and I've yet to see where they've done even 1/3 of say what the Black Panthers did with school lunch programs etc.

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterJDantv

So is the Talented Tenth failing the black race, or is there not a Talented Tenth at all at this point (well, I guess there's a some but not in the large proportion many like to think)?

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered Commenter05girl

Too many are consumed with the idealism of our past without recognizing the obstacles that came with it. When Dubois spoke of the Talented Tenth, it's my impression that he did so while expressing the duty owed to the black proletariat by black elite. He did not speak of the Talented Tenth as if to gather all the rich people so they can simply enjoy being rich and privileged. At the end of the day, he realized that privileged or not, the woes of black people in America of all backgrounds are interwoven. Perhaps partially self-preservation, but nevertheless it was a call to arms - not a call to relax. In this day and age, I am not so sure being black and having multiple degrees is sufficient to even be elite in the first place, but that is a whole other topic in and of itself. If find that the misconception that we (black professionals) should be rewarded for attaining our degrees and professional success rampant among my peers. This focus on self purportedly then forgives our inaction in the community. As if it is excusable for us to maintain such a self-centric lifestyle. I believe it is not excusable. I am not suggesting that everyone should drop out of MBA programs to get petitions signed. I am merely stating that attaining your personal goals truncated from your duty to our black brothers and sisters, (many who are still living below the poverty line & suffering from institutionalized racism existing under the pretext of permissible classism) makes you simply a privileged black person. Maybe you're wealthy, who knows. Nevertheless, you are in fact privileged if you are reading this, and I cannot help but wonder what it is that is holding so many of us back from community activism. Great post!

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterAisha M

I loved this post and MoreandAgain's comment, especially:

It's sad that as a people we don't do that, not even for family. I don't know if we ever did that. I was just asking myself if I would live under one roof with more (working) family members to save money, and I cringed at the thought of the luxuries I'd have to give up (and God forbid there's more than 3 people per bathroom, I could not deal.) We've literally bought the White American myth of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" hook, line, and sinker. And, we definitely don't trust each other.

We definitely have bought into that myth, when the truth is NOBODY in this country, white, black, asian, latino, jewish, itailian, german...NOBODY got to the top by themselves. Somebody had to give you those boots in the first place. I know all the excuses we have -- people talk about how they patronize black businesses, and the subpar service they receive (took too long, cost too much, shoddy workmanship, etc...) -- but we have got to do something. There is a reason we've been in this country hundreds of years longer than most other minorities and yet we're still struggling, by-and-large. Slavery has a lot to do with it, but at what point do we quit looking around us for the help we may be due, but won't recieve?

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterASmith

For once, I have no major commentary, other than I definitely agree with you. I especially agree with the last statement. Education is key and I'm proponent of higher learning, however, if I'm equipped with all of these degrees and honors, how "talented" am I if I'm not using them and my gifts to uplift my people and community. It seems like the Talented Tenth is only out of self these days and that's definitely what it's NOT about.

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterAlisha

Wow! This was awesome, and highly inspiring. This drew me in completely: "The Talented Tenth is not a label of affluent or educational distinction, it is a covenant and the terms of the covenant are simple:" That is powerful! (sidebar, Brandi should definately be a writer because the ability to challenge an individual, and place such a high mandate on an entire group of people in one sentence is more than just a matter of "syntax". It is divine purpose and a gift!)

The entire time I'm reading, I began to think how selfish we are. I don't isolate that just as a characteristic of the black community, but it is a flaw of all mankind. If people of all races took Dubois' idea of the "Talented Tenth" the world would really be SO much better off. But again selfishly, those who do give back to the less fortunate only help "their people". Which in essence makes them no better than the elitist who works for himself. I know, off topic, but I am an advocate of human service, not just "black service". (I can't help it, I'm the most multi of the multiracial)

If the "Talented Tenth" had served their duty to society years ago we as a people would be sooo much further along. Just imagine the possibilities. It may not have taken hundreds of years to have a black president. (invisioning Obama with a halo, sweet mother of Moses I love that man!) Sadly, if we implement Dubois ideologies into our lives now, Jesus just may come back before we get to see the greatness that could result.

I've heard so often, now after the Obama presidency than before, that black children no longer have an excuse to not be whatever they want to be. After all our president is black, so you can be great too! I'm sorry, that's not enough. Yes, the youth of today have access to tools that those before us did not ( i.e. internet, tv, libraries and such), but without personal influence those things add up to almost nothing. Our president is amazing, but we can't leave it all on his shoulders. At some point, we have to go out and grab somebody by the hand, and pull them along with us, Obama is merely a catalyst, but real change only comes alive when we all work towards progress.

This post was definately a reminder for me, to think more about the "greater good" than just myself. It's our responsibility. This was the charge I needed. Thank You. :)

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterRealistically Speaking

If you believe that the solution to the lower class's problems is as simple as them making better choices ... then what would ever compel you to survey the crowd of "have-nots" in order to seek out who is "deserving" of help?

It's more complex than choices, because there are mentalities that lead to choices.

As a personal philosophy, I believe in investing in children because they don't choose their circumstances and are merely subject to the choices (or poor choices) of adults. I find that with fully grown adults, it;s not just choices and opportunities, it's beliefs and patterns of thought and those are hard to change. For those who have the time, resources, and tenacity to help with that, socially, go for it, I support you. But for most people, we are just unable to.

For example, you might try to help a single welfare mom get a job (been there done that) and when you peel away the layers, it's not just a matter of not having jobs available, you may find a lack of marketable skills, a lack of workplace polish, the inability to dress accordingly and articulate clearly in a job interview, a bit of a lack of work ethic, the ability to learn easily and pick up new concepts, the lack of professionalism to know how to balance child care and work (i.e. Kesha cannot drop your baby off at your job because she has to go get her hair done), and so on. And you find that what just seemed as simple as giving someone an opportunity, quickly becomes so much more than that. Corporate America and small business are not in the rehabilitation business (for the most part) and this is why the cycle continues.

I don't think the talented tenth is failing, but the very idea that 10% of the population can carry the load is absolutely ridiculously absurd to begin with. And i'll go on record to say maybe if good old Dubois had been a statistician, he would have understood the absurdity of such an idealist notion. Show me a society where 10% is holding it down and I'll crawl into a corner and concede defeat.

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterMiss Understood

i'm a high school graduate who works in the hood to combat not only gang violence, but also the conditions that cause gang violence as well. and yea..i think i'm talented as shit. I think we ALL are the talented tenth.

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterDj Victorious

@Miss Understood
Most days, I agree with you, even if its just a little bit. But today, I can not disagree more! I work in mental rehabilitation / counseling for both adults and children. And these grown adults that you speak of 95% of the time are stuck in their 9 year old mind. Most of these people are adults who as a child didn't have anyone to teach them the fundamentals of work ethic and social skills. You can not chose to be sympathetic to one group without the other, adults with "ghetto mentality" or "socially unacceptable lifestyles and behaviors" are merely misguided and misinformed children who have physically grown up, and mentally remained stagnant. Growing in age does not mean you just automatically gain knowledge or any skills to maintain a healthy lifestyle. To me common sense tells me not to take someone straight out of the ghetto, or unfortunate circumstances and place them smack dab in corporate america where we all KNOW they will be judged and misunderstood. The bible even says "be transformed by the renewing of your MIND". You have to talk to people, expose them to a different life through you, be a friend, LISTEN, overall just help them to have a different view on life. Once they SEE a different life, and even become able to see themselves in that life, they don't need your "opportunity" or "pity job", their drive and determination kicks in, and they go for LIFE with everything they have. One thing they know how to do is hustle. People don't need pitty, they need compassion and understanding. That goes so much further than anything.

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterRealistically Speaking

The talented tenth is a fancy way of saying each one teach one, then pay it forward.

the 10% was not supposed to stay as such. it was supposed to grow. it hasn't.

B makes an excellent point about how insular it is. (I come from it, (the misdefined version) it is.) Not too many people get out, and not too many get in.

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered Commenterbelle

I think this is an excellent post. I actually wrote my senior thesis in college on this topic, but I was aware of Booker T. Washington's commentary on civic responsibility. I think that's a large part of the problem. We are more into buying big, flashy things than we are into making the proper changes within our own neighborhoods.

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterJac

Which brings us back to the original question. Does the perhaps more aptly named Affluent Tenth have any duty to procreate for the sake of the the community and/or the world at large? I guess that depends on whether one thinks that said Affluent Tenth is doing any favors. In other words, is mere elitism itself worth spreading? Sure, there are benefits to elitism, but I don't think elitism itself is reason for a call to action.

Going home to re-read Mr. DuBois....

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersolidgold78

B makes an excellent point about how insular it is. (I come from it, (the misdefined version) it is.) Not too many people get out, and not too many get in.

And that's why the breed conversation didn't make sense to me.

It's set up to be insular. It's set up to benefit their ilk. So why does it matter that "hoodrats" exist?

I live in the part of the country where the talented tenth has always prospered.

If you're not part of that group you don't see/socialize with them.

I went t high school with their kids...but as far as interacting outside of that - nope - they are a group unto themselves and as as my experience has shown me have no interest in the black "other."

The black elite are effectively useless to the vast majority of black America.

The "betterment" of black America lies on the back of the middle class - should they choose to accept the challenge.

Anything else is wishful thinking.

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterThe Single Black Woman

I liked the article. In my opinion the "Talented Tenth" never really existed. What did exist and still does exist is the simple fundamental willingness to support one another. The masses looked to the few who were willing to sacrifice for others. That few was labeled the "Tenth". However, if we as a people unify to support one another we would just become "Talented." Its all perception. We all are talented. Our lack of willingness to engage others separates us from the tenth. Destroy that mentality and everyone will discover that percentage is greater than 10.

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterBrian Cooper

>>>It's set up to be insular. It's set up to benefit their ilk. So why does it matter that "hoodrats" exist?<<<

eh... i don't think it' set up to be. it just is. folks aren't exactly friendly to Black people who don't have the "i struggled so hard" experience. that's a two-way street.

>>I went to high school with their kids...but as far as interacting outside of that - nope - they are a group unto themselves and as as my experience has shown me have no interest in the black "other."<<

i wouldn't say they have no interest. just, perhaps, not the same interests. they're like everyone else. that's another two way street.

>>>The black elite are effectively useless to the vast majority of black America.<<<
totally disagree. the ones in the right places-- politicians and decision makers— can decide your fate.

>>>The "betterment" of black America lies on the back of the middle class - should they choose to accept the challenge.<<<

i gotta think on that one.

i think the so-called talented tenth gets vilified often like they're a group of people who sit around saying "fuck everyone who ain't us. don't let them in." most didn't come from much— though there are plenty of old money families going back generation upon generation— but more often than not, they worked their way into what they are. i think there's also the idea as a whole they don't give back-- also very untrue. just because they may not be sweeping up alleys and sidewalks in the hood (episode of fresh prince) doesn't mean they don't do other things. more often than not, they are people who are just living their lives trying to make the most of it like everyone else. could they do more? of course. but everyone could.

there's stuck up people, of course. but i think they have become the face of the T3 just like 50 is the face of the hood. most of hood like most of "elite" blacks (i hate that word) is people just living, trying to stay ahead of the game.

the salvation of the Black race should not rest at the feet of any one group of Black people. we are all responsible for our progress.

October 28, 2009 | Registered CommenterBelle

Great post! I agree with Aisha M. The Tenth was supposed to be our bridge to success. Reach back and grab one or five. The "Elite" title turned into mostly "better than everyone" instead of "better for everyone" in relation to a way of living. Who doesn't agree that it is better to have the knowledge, live more comfortably and have broadened opportunities than to struggle daily or never be exposed to other things. But we've gotta get back to not caring how big our car/house/steak is so long as everyone (others) gets to ride/live/eat also.

More degrees, bigger paychecks, etc are all great, but there is no "Talent" attributed to it unless it is benefiting and affecting change in those not included. The masses. Meaning, outside of the bubble. If you're only helping your friends or their children, who also are the "have's", then it doesn't count, no matter how many letters of recommendation you write, how many internships you offer at your corporation or how much mentoring you do.

So the "Talented" today in my eyes range from the grass roots organizers who are making strides in the community to the philanthropist who is raising awareness, funding scholarships, etc. Its great if there are advanced degrees and such involved, education is needed in order to teach, but in this day its not the only pathway to knowledge and success. Really to me its more about the "putting in work" aspect. Talents are manifested in many ways. So what are you doing with the talents you've been given?

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterAya

eh... i don't think it' set up to be. it just is. folks aren't exactly friendly to Black people who don't have the "i struggled so hard" experience. that's a two-way street.

I think that's a little disingenuous.

You can choose to be inclusive or you can chose not to be inclusive - those at the top of the food chain (regardless of race) choose not to be inclusive, from invite only organizations to play groups.

Those who are part of the group are in those who aren't aren't. And if you're not a part of the group you're not exactly informed of various opportunity, given access to organizations, etc. - it is definitely set up to be insular.

totally disagree. the ones in the right places-- politicians and decision makers— can decide your fate.

Black politicians are just like most politicians - concerned with the next election and fattening their own coffers. There's too much corporate/wall street money in politics to be "for the people." Any people.

I don't think anyone is questioning whether or not the Black elite gives back - the question is are they a big enough influence on the rest of Black America to need more of them.

My answer is no.

They in general are about their own. So the existence of hoodrats isn't of much of a concern (or shouldn't be) 'cause they go on and weren't exactly aiding in the lessening of hoodrat-dum.

The Black elite aren't unlike any other elite group - insular, exclusive, concerned about their kind - overall we need to stop expecting them to be any different.

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterThe Single Black Woman

Wow! Talk about starting off with a bang! This is dayumed near (if not) seminal.

Brandi, the intellectual gauntlet that you have laid down here is just the sort of impudence to spark the connection that need to be made:
A) between “the present” to “the past”,
B) between “poor folk” and “folks of means”
C) and finally to link “the mission of change” put forth by our President and “the work that remains” to be done.
Be clear, there's a lot of work to be done. Also, it should be noted that there are those of us out here working.

It's true, family comes first (after God of course), and that is why, for many of us, charity starts at home. But articles like your hopefully nudge people to have a little more vision and widen the reach of their efforts. It’s incredibly short sighted to ONLY take care of home. Not to mention that, left untouched, the surrounding community can not only undermine your efforts but extinguish your dreams all together.

Kudos

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterAdrian Bryant

You have to talk to people, expose them to a different life through you, be a friend, LISTEN, overall just help them to have a different view on life. Once they SEE a different life, and even become able to see themselves in that life, they don't need your "opportunity" or "pity job", their drive and determination kicks in, and they go for LIFE with everything they have.

By nature the motivated and high achieving people of any group are in the minority. By nature, people are predisposed towards laziness. So even when you are working with people who, once properly nurtured, go after life with all their might, I bet if you were honest about it, they would be in the minority.

I'm not saying people need pity but my point is that by the time you're an adult, you're either lazy or you aren't. Which is why you can have two siblings growing up together and one gets out and makes a great life and legacy and the other doesn't. With younger people, you have a chance to reach them before a lazy mentality or pattern of thought sets in. And usually the younger you reach them, the better, the more chances of a successful outcome.

I wasn't really speaking about people who need mental rehabilitation (which implies some type of developmental or learning challenges) so I cannot comment on that.

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterMiss Understood

I don't think anyone is questioning whether or not the Black elite gives back - the question is are they a big enough influence on the rest of Black America to need more of them.

I think that's exactly the question. If the black elite were giving back in the way the DuBois hoped/demanded, then theoretically we would see a general uptick in the lives and status of the rest of black society, which I don't think is true. I think, as you rightly point out, that because the black elite is focused on themselves (again, as you point out, like other elite groups), the Talented Tenth has not significantly materalized.

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersolidgold78

What I find most interesting about some who weren't born into privilege, yet excelled to it, is that they refuse to help those they know best. Noses are turned up, scoffs toward language are made, and "hood babies" (as they're called in Kansas City) are ignored. We are all guilty of this, to some extent, but at a certain point, those who are truly part of the Talented Tenth show themselves through work, not just words.

I personally believe that we, as a people, need to do much better, and it does get frustrating when you meet those who don't want to be helped and are complacent with mediocrity, or less. What I'd like to know, as someone who wants to help but feels helpless, is how do you reach the family members who don't believe they need help?

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterMSharp

Wow is what first comes to mind. And I say that as I give round of applause. Ironically, I must send this to my mother because as I type I realize that her raising my sister and myself in the "spirit of service" as she called it was her fostering a seed in us that would help us not see and understand that service is a necessary element of life and community. Also, ironically I realize both my sister and I have manifested that "spirit of service" in our lines of work. She is a teacher who LOVES what she does and I work in the non profit sector. Yet and still I wouldn't put myself in the talented tenth category. I don't perform ENOUGH service.

"In retrospect I now know, an immigrant wants to help his people while a slave wants to help himself."

I, for the life of me still can't understand this mentality. Why when we have been enslaved would we not want to reach back and help others out?

I think at some point, as we begin to climb that ladder that takes us from one point in our lives to another, the ladder to success, money, access, power, comfort, we get lost in the action of climbing and in a sense, almost become a slave to it and forget how it was and who it was that helped get us to the ladder in the first place. Brandi, if for anything, I thank you for that reminder.

A lot of food for thought here. I used to think of dancing like this...What is talent if it isn't inspiring anyone to move, inspiring anyone to dance WITH me?

GREAT GREAT POST!

October 28, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterBrooklyn Ice

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