Introduce the child to both. The child can choose what works. As long as the babe isn't an atheist or bathing in pig's blood, I'm good.

That bout sums it up

Even though if I were honest I've got some issues with Islam. It's treatment (as practiced by some) of women is questionable at best and downright wrong at worst.

Other than that I'm pretty good.

I consider myself "spiritual" and not "religious" (there's a definite distinction between the two). Having said that, I believe in God, but I don't adhere to any organized religion. Furthermore, I don't think that I could be in a serious relationship with anyone who is devout. I don't object to exposing a child to organized religion, but I would let the child decide for himself/herself once he/she is old enough to do so.

Great post as usual Belle.

This topic hits very close to home for me, because I grew up in a two-religion home. My father converted to Islam when I was about 10 years old (not NOI, for anyone that's curious) while my mother remained a Christian. For many years it worked in our home; my siblings and I went to Jummah at the mosque on Fridays with my dad and to church on Sundays with my mom. In our house my parents were more focused on each of us having our own personal relationships with God, and reading religious texts and being able to understand them, rather than forcing us to go to a particular service. What I most appreciated was that neither of my parents tried to force us into either religion, but instead gave us the freedom to explore and follow where God was leading us.

Now that we are all adults, my brothers are conservative practicing Muslims, while my sister, mom and I are pretty agnostic. For myself, there are things that I agree with and disagree with in both Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and for right now my personal relationship with God and living by his standard is much more important to me than the outward symbols of organized religion (obligatory worship, labels, etc.). I know that God knows my heart condition and I firmly believe that anything done out of obligation or because you think folks are watching you is a wasted opportunity. I'd rather see someone go to service once a year but lives their life according to their religious ideology than someone who follows every outward symbol but doesn't truly believe it in their heart.

One thing that does frustrate me with a lot of Black people is that they don't take the time to figure out if someone is truly living up to who they say they are. Back when I did identify myself as a Muslimah, I was always shocked by how so many men disqualified me because I was not a Christian. Yet these were men who had no spiritual foundation, who simply wanted a woman who called herself a Christian even if she didn't live the life of a Christian. Its like there is no investigation to find out what folks truly believe. Folks can be of the same religion and still not agree on how to worship, raise the kids, etc.

Link to my post in case anyone's interested: http://blackgirlunlost.blogspot.com/2007/10/labels-suck.html

"as long as the kids arent worshipping Satan or bathing in pigs blood, it's ok."

I grew up in a 2 denominational household where one parent was Pentecostal and the other Catholic...essentially the belief were the same and both worshipped the same God, so neither parent felt the need to convert. I was christened, had first communion, and confirmed, and went to confession every Saturday til I was 14 in the catholic church. Then on Sunday I spent all day with the "hooting and hollering" Pentecostals. Honestly until HS I was confused as all get out because up until then I just did as my parents told me not learning the religions and why each meant to me. When I took time to learn more an make a choice I would say that I identified most as a Catholic. Today I don't go to any church much except for events like a wedding or a funeral and the occassional Xmas mass or Easter. Not bc I don't believe anymore I just don't need a building to define me and my relationship with God.

I married someone who is agnostic, but grew up 7th Day Adventist. When we have kids I want them to
be exposed to both our religions and let them make a choice as they get older. But I would also let them explore other religions of their friends who may be Jewish or Muslim. I wouldn't disown them if they decided to convert due to marriage or anything.

I wouldn't convert to be with someone because my religious affiliation is about my beliefs, not a title or things I do out of habit.

But I'm not opposed to dating someone who believes differently, given that their beliefs aren't in direct conflict with mine.

However, I think the intersection of religion and dating become more complex when there are children involved and ultimately become a test of how well you and your partner communicate your wants, needs, and expectations when it comes to raising your children. And how well you can explain to your children why they are going to church on Sunday but daddy doesn't have to.

When getting to know someone, WHILE DATING, religion should be discussed just like you'd discuss whether or not you want kids, want to get married, etc. If you can't agree to have some form of common ground when it comes to building a spiritual/religious foundation for your child/children, you will inevitably have problems in the future.

If a person decided to throw caution to the wind, fall in love with someone, and THEN begin to make a big deal out of religion/spirituality, they are an azz. It wasn't important during the dating process (when it should have been) so why all of a sudden does it become a dealbreaker AFTER you "fall in love"?

I grew up in a household where the rule was, you will do what we (the parents) do. You will practice this religion as long as you live under this roof. As i got older, I grew to believe that religion should be a personal decision EVERYONE has the right to choose. I'm not big on "blindly" following anyone or anything so I've steered from my religious upbringing. There are some things that I appreciated learning because it helped me maintain my moral fibers I have today and build an ethic system that keeps me safe. I plan to teach my child the truth about all things...anyone I end up married to has to be on the same page or we can't be together.

Hop topic!

No, I would not convert to another religion for a mate. Not for the sake of being with him. Spirituality, religion, and beliefs are apart of who you are. They make you who you are, so I can't justify changing that major piece of me for someone else. If I worship with him and honestly believe in my heart that these teachings are valid and I WANT to convert, that's a different story.

I agree with you, Belle, to an extent. My mate absolutely MUST believe in God. Does he have to be a "Holy Roller" and attend church every Sunday? No, although I prefer we attend together. I grew up in a home where my mom and I would go every Sunday and were (still are) heavily involved in the church. My daddy always stayed home (even though he was raised AME). I can't tell you how many arguments they had over principles that are Christianity-centered. From tithing to forgiveness...it was always something. A couple needs to be headed in the same direction, especially if children are involved.

I have briedly dated two guys who were different denominations than me. I'm not a stickler for holding on to denominiations, but in these cases, our beliefs in God and the role of "the church" were completely different (a discussion about churches--Black churches could go on forever). It was a turn-off for me. I guess because like someone said in your thread, "Sure, you can say "we'll respect each other" but the truth is deep down you are going to want the other person to think the way you think or take part in your beliefs."

I do think you can respect a religion and not agree with it. The bottom line for me is to believe in God. I can't get with someone getting up, moving around, being blessed (whether they consider it so or not) and thinking he/she is doing that by himself. Not possible...everyone has to believe in something.

Hello to all...I personally don't have a religion.. I am spiritual, ( yes there is a difference), so as for the converting no... I don't beleive in religions b/c they are all the same..You pray to a god, we may call him by many other names but he/she is still God...As for this particular situation I would have to say that if she loves him and is willing to do so, then by all means...But don't throw it in his face when times get difficult...As for children in the picture, I beleive in letting the child find what path in the religion or spiritual world that is made for him... I have a 5 yr. old son and he knows that God is there, but also understands that Mommy and Daddy don't do church or religion...I also have freinds who are faithful church attendees and one of them is one of my besties...My son likes going to church often times with her and I don't see a problem.. The only thing I object to is anyone trying to put it on him as far as religion, like I said before, I want him to make that decision for himself...I have dated men that go to church and men that don't , and have been lucky to have both understand my beleifs and respect them, and I don't judge anyone for beleiving in what they want to...

Teddy: Of course you would want your child to follow your beliefs because essentially when it comes to religion, what your faith is, is what you believe is right. But if you are open-minded enough to be with someone of a different faith then you should allow your child to make their own choice.

My only issue with that with people try to be to scholarly when it comes to faith. Try to apply intellectual reasoning to as to why they believe or don't believe in a particular God. When the truth is faith itself is illogical. To believe in something you can't see or touch is borderline insanity. Faith has more to do with what's inside your heart as opposed to what's inside your head.

@Teddy
I get what you are saying ...but to ech his own .... like you said beleiving in something you can't see is crazy to some but I completely understand... I beleive in my spirituality b/c I have seen and experienced it many times over...As for wanting my child beleive what I do, no , I want him to let his spirit guide him... may it be religion or spiritualism...

@Belle
why does no God= no hope? I think you should find hope and faith where your heart finds it, may it be a song or a God or a picture, etc... I am not judging you but to say that no God equals no hope is a bit drastic...Off topic, I love your blog!!!

I would not convert soley for my partner. I have already blogged about my general spiritual experiences. I do believe religion/spirituality needs to be discussed prior to 'love'. This is such a huge part of who people are, that bypassing this topic is like ignoring a part of who they are.

I do not think me and my girl need to be the same religion, however, I do need her to believe. You cannot and will not have a peaceful union if you are not equally yoked.

Both Jubilance and Assertive Wit have written my thinking on this topic. Surprisingly, that is all for me.

Bond. BlkBond.

@ LLL
I don't get how you can have hope if you don't believe in something bigger than yourself. Flowers and pictures are not bigger than humans. You're expecting the picture of the flower to save/help/relieve you?

to have faith is to believe. I don't believe in pictures in flowers, but I am INSPIRED by pictures and flowers. I don't get HOPE and FAITH in them.

If a man finds his faith in flowers and pictures, we're not on the same page. It's a no go for long term.

there's no hope for the relationship.

This is always an interesting topic. Of course I respect the opinions of all those commenting on this entry. For me, my husband has to be Christian as I am. I can't see it any other way because my faith is my foundation. Which means our relationship, the way we love each other, the decisions made, the way we interact, the raising of our kids, and the way we live our lives will grow from our faith. Some other people feel differently on that. If combining faiths works for them, then I wish them the very best. But, I have to have a Christian man. It doesn't mean the relationship will be perfect. But, it surely makes it easier for us to understand each other and plan a future together that works for us.

Terrific Thursday everyone!

Buttafly

Agree w/ Buttafly wholeheartedly.

Your Friend Smith = Typical Ex-Catholic w/ Issues.

Good one. I guess this is interesting for me because like a couple of the posters mentioned, I'm spiritual, not religious. I believe in God, but organized religion to me was never something I was really interested in getting into. I think it was Ghandi who said "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” I think this is particularly applicable in some of those holy-roller Southern megachurches where everybody rolls on the floor and speaks in tongues while some sweating pastor exhorts them to give him their money so he can buy a new Bentley to take his choir leader boyfriend out to Sizzler in style. I know I'm being mad stereotypical, but that's just the vibe I get from some of these places. And don't get me started about these people who think it's ok for a man who claims to follow the teachings and way of Christ to live a life of luxury because the bible mentions kings as well as prophets. I fart on your logic.

That said, I've been to Agape in L.A., and it's unbelievable. I've never gone to a service before or since where so many people seemed so genuinely happy and content. I could deal with a woman who's a practicing religiousy person, but megachurch member/COGIG follower/all other Bible/Koran/Torah thumpers aren't really my deal. Now owuld be a good time for all the women to ironically attack me for "limiting" my dating pool or having unrealistic expectations. That would be kinda funny.

never. not. ever. my faith in God (the same God who says there is no other god before, after, or who could stand beside Him) is my life. it pervades my thoughts, my actions, my words. without God i would be nothing. and i do not believe for one second that i could build anything--a marriage, a home, a family-- with someone who does not feel the same way. i feel that relationship w/God is what helps many marriages withstand the tests of time and the trials of life.

i have friends who are members of other religions, and even some who are Christians and do not share the same convictions that i do. that's why they are friends and not potential mates. i would never ask someone to convert to Christianity for me, either. a relationship w/God is too personal and ingrained to try to change or force it based on a relationship with another human being.

and btw, i attend a "megachurch," but i don't not consider myself a "holyroller" or "bible thumper," (interesting the labels people come up w/for folks who don't share their beliefs or lack thereof). my pastor does drive a bentley, but he purchased it with money he has earned for speaking engagements, books and movies. our church does not pay him a salary, nor does he stand in the pulpit and solicit donations. i guess everyone has their dealbreakers, but i am definitely offended by people who judge me based on the church i attend w/out examining the doctrine that is actually taught there.

For me...he would have to believe in God, perferably a Christian/Baptist. I think it would be hard to find a common ground, as far as religion goes. Especially if I'm one who goes to church often, prays daily and reads my bible almost every day.

I recall years ago having a conversation with a friend (who followed Islamic, not NOI, practices) about religion and relationships. He maintained that he could date a woman who was Christian because when it's all said and done, they both believe in God. I'm on the fence with that one because I know there are certain practices of other religions that I don't agree with (really has nothing to do with the "standards" we as women are held up to); however, we both would be praying to GOD so would it really be that big of a deal?

I find myself to be way more spiritual than religious - I don't know the Bible in and out nor do I go to church very often. I have my own issues with both but very much believe in God. I don't care AT ALL about denominations and actually find it funny when a Catholic (which is how I was raised) says they can't date a Baptist or Baptist who says they can't date an Episcopalian, or whoever/whatever. But I guess that's just a personal choice.

Would I convert to Islam if I had an Islamic man? NO. If I decided that our different religious backgrounds were not THAT important and could see us moving to a more committed stage (ie marriage), then we'd just worship differently. I'm open to learning about most religions so I know a little about most of them anyway - can't hurt to learn a little more. I would not like to be forced, however, to celebrate a certain way. If/When kids became a factor in the equation, I agree with Belle - teach them both and then let them decide as they get older and become wise enough to make their own decisions.

Finally, I definitely agree with the person who said that this is a conversation people should have if even one person finds religion/spirituality important. You'd be surprised how much of a ruckus opposing views this could start.

I know a ton of people who REFUSE to discuss any topic related to religion because of comments like this:

"God= hope. no God = no hope."

Who are you to make that judgment? If that's what you were taught, then it is nothing more than what you choose to believe. If someone else was taught something different, that is their belief. To flat out tell someone their belief is incorrect is more than bold...it's rude. If that's what someone wants to believe, leave them to their beliefs.

For the record, I believe in a higher power but I don't tell people they are wrong when they CHOOSE to believe something else. That's on them and it's their choice just as much as it is yours to believe in God.

"to flat out tell someone their belief is incorrect is more than bold...it's rude. "

i hope that wasn't an implication related to me because that is not what i said. i stated my belief and when asked why i wrote it, i answered the question. I did NOT (and would not) tell anyone what they believed is wrong.

i've also never claimed to be the most polite person.

@SweetT I'll assume your comment was directed at me. It's not that I personally judge you for your church, but like you said, you have dealbreakers, and so do I. I'm not offended by yours. As far as your pastor driving a Bentley, I'm fine with him earning money outside the church. But I think it completely destroys your legitimacy as someone who claims to be a follower of God's will and law to use those assets that He (or She)'s seen fit to allow you to accumulate to do something as vain and self serving as buying a quarter million dollar car. The two just don't jibe for me. If he were to just cut back to, say, a Mercedes ($50,000), and put the other $200k into a conservative investment vehicle yielding 6%, that's $12,000 a year (without even touching the principal) that could go to a scholarship for someone who needs it, or foreclosure relief for one of the church's families, or books for a local elementary school. Granted, most of the people of God who made a marked difference in my life were Catholic and took a vow of poverty, so that probably colors my reasoning.

@belle: I think that's a pretty narrow view. I know plenty of people who are atheist or agnostic and they have plenty of hope. They get hope from seeing the good deeds of other people, or the joy of their children, or just the fun of life. I also know some miserable religious people. I think the flowers and pictures analogy was pretty disingenuous.

Yes, I did write that in reference to what you wrote. You don't have to claim to be the most polite person. Sometimes things and people just are what they are; I understand that.

There is nothing wrong with you believing that having no God in YOUR life translates to no hope in YOUR life; it just doesn't and shouldn't be applied to everyone because everyone has different beliefs. How you wrote it was pretty much stated that this is what you believe in regards to anyone who doesn't believe in God. If you meant it otherwise, cool.

the flowers and pictures were what were referred to in the question. that's the only reason i used it.