And that is all she wrote. Wow. This is a global problem. Not just a black woman's problem. Kudos on keeping us current Belle! Love it.

Loving this blog post!! Now regarding the article, yes... there a lot of similarities between Japanese women and Black women. However, there is a huge, glaring difference between the two. Japanese women do NOT want marriage, where as Black women actually DO!!!

@lisa hmmm. i got from the article not that they didn't want marriage at all, just not in its current form. the expectations are too great, and the reward too little.

read the comments on any major black site about relationships, it's a lot of women bashing men for not growing up and being suitable (cornrows, no job, in jail, no car, spends all his money at the club/strip) and a lot of "I'd rather be by myself than put up with [insert b*llsh*t here.]"

"She says Japanese men sometimes propose to women with lines like: "I want you to cook miso soup for me the rest of my life." Not surprisingly, Japan's increasingly educated and well-traveled young women are not impressed."

Love that line. I don't blame them.

Wow at that article. You're right, that sounds exactly like the problems that are being outlined, daily it seems, with regards to black women. Although I would guess that there are probably less parasite singles amongst black women than there seems to be in Japan.

Why is this a problem at all? Why can't people have the right to choose to be single without the added criticism?

It sounds to me like the Japanese culture is wayy better off than ours because they have accepted circumstances for what they really are -- a new way of life!!

We're the ones (Black America) trying to fight against a natural progression. The way things are today makes it O.K. and entirely possible to have a good life without getting married and/or having kids. We should be celebrating that because it means that education is more accessible than it was in the past and that people have learned to rely on friends and family for support. And it doesn't mean that men and women aren't still friends and having a good relationship outside of marriage.

Black women can say all that crap all they want to .... but at the end of the day, they know they wish to be married. LOl. Also, based on the article it seems that it's somewhat of a role reversal... Japanese women can somewhat identify with Black men in a sense that generally both don't see any real benefits for themselves to get married. Belle, can you name these black relationship sites? B/c I only know of 3, and one of the is yours. Lol.

In general, the drop in marriage is not exclusive to black women, but to point fingers and say "look them too" doesn't really address our issues. People who come from parents with accomplishments, who also come from parents with accomplishments, are in a different boat when they decide to shun marriage versus (for the most part) first generation success coming from single parent households who are still poor (by universal standards, not by hood wealth standards).

If anything, they are dealing with male chauvinism and male supremacy and going against that. Bet if a bunch of western white men who are more "equality minded" in their views of marriage and family showed up, they would be going down the altar.

They made a choice to not enter into a situation to their detriment, WITH suitors.

The issue with the black woman epidemic, is that most of us aren't making a choice, we don't have as many options.

@lisa

i was referring to the more general sites where the subject comes up such as essence.com, theybf.com, and bossip.com

there are a TON of Black relationship sites. the only ones i will plug is untiligetmarried.com because I love Jozen, singleblackmale.net, and verysmartbrothas.com (because I love all the writers at both). the rest you have to find on your own or when I link to them here. :-) i don't plug anyone i don't love for free.

i do think you're right that Black women do want to marry while it appears Japanese women do not. I think that a deeper dig into that story would reveal that they do want companionship/marriage, they just don't want it at the cost it's being offered. i could, of course, be wrong.

@ EQ: "We're the ones (Black America) trying to fight against a natural progression"

ARE U SERIOUS???!?!?!?!!!! What we (Black America) are going thru now is NOT a natural progression. Natural progression of life is to procreate and leave behind a generation to live out a legacy. It's not to end up like the Japanese to where they have to advertise sex and dating just so there country can actually exist w/o troubles in the future. Now there's nothing wrong with "singledom", however it becomes a problem when it is the majority, not the minority.

"They made a choice to not enter into a situation to their detriment, WITH suitors.

The issue with the black woman epidemic, is that most of us aren't making a choice, we don't have as many options."

i think it could be reasonably argued that Black women do have options. they just don't like the options that they have. for instance, single professional could date/marry uneducated guy on fries. she chooses not to. or she could date/marry whoring likeminded professional but chooses peace of mind over whoring husband. I'm being extreme, of course, but a i think part of what plays into why Black women aren't married is that she's looking across at her counterpart, much like the Japanese woman, and saying "Eff that." I'm not being a maid, a slave, docile, or stupid, running on the treadmill, looking like a video chick, catering to your ego, letting you bust on my face, just to have a ring.

the oft quotes stat is that if every Black man married a Black woman today, ONE in 12 would not have a mate. The other 11 would. Numbers are on our side in that respect. It's the quality that BWs are turning up their nose at AND that BWs are not willing to do what it takes to get a commitment from a Black man, who, in general, is expecting about what Japanese men expect. PART of the underlying issue with Black men and Black women is male supremacy/chauvinism as well.

the post was less about addressing our issues than to say, "hey. singleness is not exclusively a Black woman's "problem" despite the way it is so often portrayed."

@ Miss Understood: "They made a choice to not enter into a situation to their detriment, WITH suitors.
The issue with the black woman epidemic, is that most of us aren't making a choice, we don't have as many options."

SEE... That's what I was trying to say. LMAO!!! That's the big difference!!! Can always count on Miss Understood to get the point across. LOL!

we won't end up like Japan. they still have a large stigma attached to single motherhood. we, as a community at large, do not. the only reason their singleness is a national problem is because they aren't having kids.

i don't know that singledom is a problem, per se, whether it is the majority or the minority. gotta ponder that. other than economics and wealth building, what makes it a problem? (not accusing. trying to wrap my head around the argument.)

@ Belle: i think it could be reasonably argued that Black women do have options. they just don't like the options that they have. for instance, single professional could date/marry uneducated guy on fries. she chooses not to. or she could date/marry whoring likeminded professional but chooses peace of mind over whoring husband. I'm being extreme, of course, but a i think part of what plays into why Black women aren't married is that she's looking across at her counterpart, much like the Japanese woman, and saying "Eff that." I'm not being a maid, a slave, docile, or stupid, running on the treadmill, looking like a video chick, catering to your ego, letting you bust on my face, just to have a ring.

OK... did I miss something??!!!! When and where has it been the notion that Black women aren't getting married for those reasons you stated avove? I thought the notion was Black women aren't getting married b/c we generally don't have an option to get married... as in Black men don't want marriage, therefore Black women can't get married. Black women: No options therefore CAN'T, where as Japanese women: OPTIONS but WON'T. And when I say options, I'm referring to marriage, not dating. Black women can date whoever thay want to, but who wants to marry us is a total different issue.

we won't end up like Japan. they still have a large stigma attached to single motherhood. we, as a community at large, do not. the only reason their singleness is a national problem is because they aren't having kids.
^^^
And that right there is the biggest difference IMO. Many black women who do want to be married aren't necessarily willing to walk the path that might get us there, meaning that we will have babies out of wedlock even if it decreases the chances that a man will see us as marriage material.
I applaud the Japanese women for at least recognizing when something isn't working for them and not settling for a kid out of wedlock or a cheating man. They are willing to build a life for themselves without a man until they find one who fits their needs.

@ EQ: "Many black women who do want to be married aren't necessarily willing to walk the path that might get us there, meaning that we will have babies out of wedlock even if it decreases the chances that a man will see us as marriage material."

Just because one has come up with a solution (i.e. babies out of wedlock) to a problem doesn't neccessarily mean that it's is right solution. B/c babies out of wedlock usually means the father is not in the home or not co-parenting and we already know the multitudes of problems it creates when "daddy" is MIA in a child's life.

@Belle
we won't end up like Japan. they still have a large stigma attached to single motherhood. we, as a community at large, do not. the only reason their singleness is a national problem is because they aren't having kids.

i don't know that singledom is a problem, per se, whether it is the majority or the minority. gotta ponder that. other than economics and wealth building, what makes it a problem? (not accusing. trying to wrap my head around the argument.)
Solely for the sake of argument:
Singleness is a problem because it if continually practiced by the majority would alter our entire society and probably not for the better.
First you have the socialization of individuals:
if you've never been in a relationship then the way you develop emotionally will usually be much more distant and less compassionate than necessary for good human interaction. It also causes a "me" and "I" outlook that does not aid in the "greater good". If most people were single the common sentiment would be about the individual more than it would be about the community which is what is necessary to continue to run a functioning "democracy". Our nation is hinged on nationalism (this is not a good thing always though) and having single people who live for the benefit of themsevles could threaten that drastically.
Then there are the lost health benefits:
for men at least b/c married men/committed men live longer.
Having healthy sex on a regular basis because we all know that multi orgasms = multi vitamins! lol. [its far too dicey to try to have sex on the regular without a partner who you can trust thus in someway you'd need to be committed even if youre only committed to sexin each other safely]
Having a bunch of single people would also drastically alter the way we govern:
If the majority of people were single then who got elected would changed based on the values/wants of single people. Thus the way/who we tax would change. The distribution of tax dollars would change. (people without kids most often vote against rasing taxes for schools and other services that they cant use and it would be the same for single people.)

Black women: No options therefore CAN'T, where as Japanese women: OPTIONS but WON'T.
-----------
@ Lisa

Are you really of the opinion that Black Women don’t have suitors? Do you really think that we are THAT low on the totem pole? If so, I think the problem lies within your own realm of thinking or whomever you are allowing to put those self-defeating notions in your head.

“Change your mind, Change your life” © Jampolsky

Yes, I see what's happening here as a change or a “natural progression.”
Human Life is meant to evolve and it always will. That's why we are living longer and the age at which you can recieve SS is getting pushed up. But to calm your fears.. there are enough people in the world and enough procreation will happen to leave behind plenty of generations all over the world.
What I’m trying to get you to understand is that VALUES have changed in our community. There was a time when a man would marry you just because you got pregnant. That is no longer the hard and fast rule in Black America. Therefore, you are not going to see those types of civil unions anymore. DIVORCE is big business now. Therefore couples are thinking longer and harder about whether to tie the knot as doing so could financially cripple them down the road. This is where it becomes important for each partner to carry equal weight coming into the marriage. That's a huge ball buster for blk men vs. blk women. The acquisition of money and MATERIAL GOODS are also ridiculously important in our culture. Everyone wants to “ball till dey fall.” Back in the day our community aspired to own their own home. Now it’s all about having a house and a Phantom in the front yard. So when you talk about leaving behind a legacy, I would counter that folks are too busy trying to LIVE a legacy than to be worried about leaving behind anything.

This article had me laughing. I really never considered Japanese women as a problem with marriage. Aren't they dating the black guys?

Tiffany
http://liferequiresmorechocolate.blogspot.com

"This article had me laughing. I really never considered Japanese women as a problem with marriage. Aren't they dating the black guys?"

^^^In Japan, um...I don't think so. LOL

I relate so much to those Japanese women. I've already stated my ambivalence towards marriage on this blog, so I won't go too much into it. I do see this as a natural progression, which constantly happens in society.

I literally LOL'd @ lifetime miso soup as a proposal.

Lisa, I agree with you and EQ, I hope to address your question while also addressing Belle:

Belle: nice reubttal but three holes in that theory:

1- The typical black woman (TBW) is still effing the "settled for black man" (SFBM)
2- The TBW is still, in many cases, getting knocked up by the SFBM
3- The SFBM ain't trying to get married

It becomes a nice song and dance, and good defense mechanism for black women to say they "wont settle for a ring" when the cold hard truth is brothers aren't really offering up rings. Most single black women have not turned down serious marriage proposals. They may have felt they were "able to get" a certain man to marry her if that's how they wanted to roll, but chances are DUDE DIDN'T PROPOSE.

Naw, we don't have suitors for MARRIAGE the way women of other cultures do, because we have DEVALUED marriage. Ironically, to a certain extent, WE (TBW) have devalued marriage with our overzealous need to prove independence.

So to answer EQ, Negroes ain't trying to get married across the board. The problem we have is really rapid and widespread declines in the desirability for black men to get married. Even the "guy on fries" ain't trying to lock it down.

That doesn't mean every single woman has no suitors for marriage, that doesn't even mean every single woman has not been proposed to, it simply means, that in general, it doesn't happen enough for black women to act like they've been turning down proposals and giving back rings to not have to settle.

Because trust, A LOT OF those same chicks popping off about not wanting to 'settle for a ring" sho would if one was being offered.

@Belle

I think this article is highly disingenuous. Thanks for bringing up the issue that very few Japanese women are having out of wedlock children. Their population growth is quite low, they have to import Brazilians, Japan is a low crime, highly educated, homogenous society with a strong ethic that has made them go from international pariah to a first world country. There is NO comparisons between a black woman and a Japanese woman. None!.

This is old news.

At one point Japan even was giving make baby holidays so folk would go home and procreate since their having major issues with their birthrate.

Their population growth is quite low, they have to import Brazilians, Japan is a low crime, highly educated, homogenous society with a strong ethic that has made them go from international pariah to a first world country.

That's a MAJOR problem. They have an almost negative growth rate and they have the oldest population in the world. Populations NEED to procreate or that spells real trouble down the road. America in general just doesn't care about it's offspring unless they come form the "right" families and subgroups.

Marriage is down across the board in most industrialized nations from Canada that has more cohabiting couples than married ones and Italy where women are putting off marriage for similar reasons as Japanese women.

This is why I love this site. This is a great article about a much talked about subject, but from another angle. It seems like cultural traditions & expectations without the benefits being in the wife's favor is the reason why many of these women are choosing to skip marriage. We (African-American women) may be in the same boat with Japanese women in the marriage numbers, but our circumstances are different of course.

Naw, we don't have suitors for MARRIAGE the way women of other cultures do, because we have DEVALUED marriage. Ironically, to a certain extent, WE (TBW) have devalued marriage with our overzealous need to prove independence.

Oh please.

No one devalued marriage.

Marriage rates are down ACROSS the board. 17% for white America since the 70's and 34% for black Americans since the 70's.

45% of ALL women are unmarried. Black women take a bigger hit for the same reasons black people take a bigger hit when anything negative happens in the US: we're a much poorer community that can't withstand hits as the larger community.

Black Marriage rates are directly proportional to the loss of manufacturing jobs that begin in the 70's. Factor in the targeting of black males for the prison industrial complex that picked up serious steam in the 80's and our 25 percent poverty rate and 30/40 years into the crisis there is no surprise that marriage rates are low in the community.

And as the bottom continues to fall out of the American middle class combined with the ravages of Meth on rural white poor and working class communities white folks will be experiencing the same "marriage crisis" that black folk are currently experiencing.

Communities can't sustain these kind of hits and survive. It's not anymore complicated than that. Though over educated black folk like to pretend like it is.

No one devalued marriage.

Marriage rates are down ACROSS the board.

And I still contend that if you give them all good paying jobs they won't be rushing to the altar.